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Old 17-09-2011, 11:34   #1
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Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

I have a furled genoa and staysail on a cutter rig. When tacking the genoa has to fly through the slot and when it blows through the sheet rips through the slot very quickly and provides nice rope burns to the staysail. The staysail has a UV protection cover, but this is quickly being burned through. Is there a good material to use for the UV cover that will resist the rope burn? Some type of synthetic material that resist UV and rope burn? The current sail is by North and I think the UV protection trim is sunbrella. I have yet to burn into the dacron, but it won't be long as their are several areas where the UV protection is burned through.

I do not want to use a pullover cover on the staysail as I singlehand and at times have to switch from the genoa to the staysail to reduce speed and I really don't want to run up to the bow to pull a cover off the staysail before using it.
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Old 17-09-2011, 11:40   #2
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

Could you not control the speed at which the sheet feeds through the slot?
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Old 17-09-2011, 11:55   #3
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

Not sure how to do that without increasing the pressure that the lazy sheet would place on the staysail. In general the lazy sheet has to be slacked completely so the genoa is completely slack after it backs in the tack. This allows the wind on the genoa in the slot to overcome the force of the remainder of the genoa hanging behind the slot. Once it starts to blow through, it all happens very quickly. If i put tension on the lazy sheet, the pressure on the sheet will be very large once it blows through. So some burn will occur at that stage, but then the tension from the lazy sheet will have to be released while the active sheet is pulled in. Although that may slow the speed of the lazy sheet across the staysail, it will drastically increase the pressure of the sheet running over the staysail. I also would not like to have the sheet hang as I'm at 80deg to the wind when it blows through and a genoa stuck sheeted into the luft of the staysail could be dangerous.
I'll give it a try in lighter winds, but not really enthusiastic about that approach.
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Old 17-09-2011, 12:00   #4
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

I can see where that would be a problem single handing but wouldn't leaving a turn or two on the winch allow you to surge the line to control the speed?
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Old 17-09-2011, 12:04   #5
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

To resist rope burn, youi might try to locate a lightweight Kevlar or Aramid fabric. Kevlar tends to be a pale yellow color. Either one will be costly, but they resist all types of friction burns very nicely.

The alternative might be softer "fuzzy" jacketed genoa sheets, I suppose.
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Old 17-09-2011, 12:04   #6
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

I figure i would have to leave one wrap on the lazy winch after the initial release and that my be enough to slow the genoa down and not burn the staysail.
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Old 17-09-2011, 12:08   #7
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

Hellosailor: I'm using the 12 strand yacht braid for the genoa. I did have the "stay-set" stuff, but that was really burning the staysail (and harder to keep clean). The 12 strand braid is easy to keep clean and a bit softer. It looked to be working, but the past few weekends we have had nice 12-15+ kts of wind in the bay and i've been having fun. At those wind speeds the burns are back and they are significant as i had a lot of fun tacking down the bay last week to get home.
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Old 17-09-2011, 13:00   #8
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

Suffer the same problem, I'm going to try and cure it by making up a sleeve of UV resistant tarp, the sleeve being sort of wrap around, to the height of about 7 feet from deck. The sleeve will have eyelets punched in and a light line treaded through to secure all in place. As I say, not tried it out yet, its going to be an experiment. It means a trip to the fore deck if the staysails needs to be used.

My neighbour furls is genoa before tacking and then rolls it back out again after the tack, but that wont work on all boats I guess, mine is a bugger to get through the wind without the genoa

EDIT

Oopps, not paying attention to your first post, I see you have discounted the sleeve idea already.
I do a fair bit single handed, and seem to have to make quite a few trips on deck, one more to remove the sleeve for me should be OK
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Old 17-09-2011, 14:13   #9
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

Jibe it......That's how I've solved the problem. Sheet flies out over the pulpit and does not interfere with the stay sail.
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Old 17-09-2011, 14:15   #10
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Re: Genoa sheet burns on furled Staysail, what to do?

suggest you contact your sailmaker as I am sure they have dealt with this problem before.
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Old 17-09-2011, 14:58   #11
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Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Thanks for the suggestions.
I've tried furling and then unfurling, it works on my boat, but i don't work. I gave up on that approach when i had to tack 9 times up the bay to get to my slip.
The Jibe burns on my boat. The sail won't blow through until i'm at 80 deg or on the jibe, at 110 or less. Although a jibe may not burn as much i've never check to see which burns come from tacks vs jibes.
I'll check with the sail loft and see what they suggest. I like the idea of a slick burn proof material as that may reduce friction and promote a smoother transition through the slot (it would be great if it did). I'm imagining no more burns and the sail blowing through a less than 80 degrees (I am allowed to make a wish , eh?)
I had one friend say that it was good to have burns on the staysail cause it shows that i actually sail my boat.
Thanks again.
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Old 17-09-2011, 16:10   #12
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Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

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Originally Posted by ardoin View Post
I'll check with the sail loft and see what they suggest. I like the idea of a slick burn proof material as that may reduce friction and promote a smoother transition through the slot (it would be great if it did). I'm imagining no more burns and the sail blowing through a less than 80 degrees (I am allowed to make a wish , eh?)
I had one friend say that it was good to have burns on the staysail cause it shows that i actually sail my boat.
Thanks again.

If you find something suitable, please let us know, thanks
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Old 17-09-2011, 16:35   #13
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Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

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I like the idea of a slick burn proof material as that may reduce friction and promote a smoother transition .
Get spectra/dyneema cored jib sheets (New England ropes endura braid is one example), and then strip the Dacron cover off from the
jib clew back almost but not quite to the turning blocks (you need the cover on for where its winched. So, you have uncovered spectra/dyneema 12 strand running over the staysail.

Spectra/dyneema is very slippery and will both eliminate the burns and also promote a smoother transition.

You will either need to use splices or sew the knows where the bare spectra/dyneema attaches to the jib clew, because spectra.dyneema is so slippery that simple unsewn knows will likely slip out.
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Old 19-09-2011, 18:23   #14
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Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Update: I talked to two sail makers today. First one said the only cover they use is sunbrella and that i should make a sleeve cover for the staysail. The other said that I should remove the furled staysail and use a hanked on version. But that sail maker also said that the only material that would resist UV and provide burn resistance is spectra cloth. Kevlar and other materials are very resistant to burn/abrasion but have very poor UV protection. This sail maker then said that he has been looking for tightly woven spectra that could be used for a long time, but never has found the woven spectra fabric that wouldn't turn into a fuzz ball after a short time. Evidently, the tight woven spectra cloth is in very high demand for ballistic protection at the military. The sail maker gave me suggestions for the specs and said that if i could find spectra cloth they would be surprised but would assist in applying to the sail. As an alternative, he said that the tight poly-webbing used on the back of seat covers might work well if applied over sunbrella, but it would shrink over time and may warp the shape of the sail.
So the suggestion to use a spectra cored line and cut back the covering may work, but it may make for quite a fuzzy line over time.
I will search for tightly woven spectra cloth, their are a couple of companies that make bullet proof vests that may have access to the material and be willing to supply a small amount.
I'll update if i find any spectra cloth.
Thanks
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Old 19-09-2011, 18:34   #15
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Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Would coming through the wind on your tacks a little more slowly and losening the jibs sheets more than you have been help you. Idea is sheets shouldn't make contact with the staysail at all.
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