Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-09-2011, 18:55   #16
Registered User
 
ardoin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Annapolis
Boat: PAE, Mason, 44 - Music
Posts: 184
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Cburger,
I free the sheets completely for the tack. The genoa is 130 and the slot is only about 2 for 2.5 ft. The burn occurs when the sheet blows through the slot. At that point is is move very fast and filling with air and at that time i'm pointed about 80 deg to the wind. The lazy sheet gets dragged by the clew very quickly across the furled staysail even though it is completely slacked. That is when the burn occurs. When the wind is 5 kts the process is very gentle (sometimes i have to go up from and walk the clew through the slot). But when the wind is fresh, once the genoa begins to blow through is moves very quickly and pulls the lazy sheet up and rips it across the furled staysail in the narrow slot. If you have more details on the technique you use, that would be appreciated. Someone earlier suggested that i keep some tension on the lazy sheet so she doesn't blow through as quickly.
Thanks
__________________

__________________
Cy Ardoin
S/V Music
http://www.cycon.com/
ardoin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2011, 19:06   #17
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Were the headsails set up this way from Mason or is the 130 Jenny a modification?
__________________

__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2011, 19:11   #18
Registered User
 
ardoin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Annapolis
Boat: PAE, Mason, 44 - Music
Posts: 184
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

This is a standard genoa setup, but the staysail is normally not furled on the Mason, so that was a modification.
__________________
Cy Ardoin
S/V Music
http://www.cycon.com/
ardoin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2011, 19:29   #19
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

When the furling gear was installed was the attachment point of the forestay moved forward? If the Jenny when completely furled is overlapping the staysail its defeating the benefits of the increased drive created by the slots between the headsails and main, the whole point of the cutter rig. Also oppening up the chaffe problem.
__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2011, 04:01   #20
Registered User
 
ardoin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Annapolis
Boat: PAE, Mason, 44 - Music
Posts: 184
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

The staysail attachment point has not been changed, just replaced with a furler. The slot is about 2 or 2.5 ft.
__________________
Cy Ardoin
S/V Music
http://www.cycon.com/
ardoin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2011, 04:06   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Duh. Douse the staysail. Faster. Cheaper better. More sailorly.
__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2011, 04:10   #22
Registered User
 
alan_za's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Tanzer 7.5 sailboat | Current Designs Solstice GTS kayak
Posts: 89
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

You could rig a cover attached to a line that can be removed without going forward I reckon (but probably not reset).
__________________
alan_za is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2011, 06:13   #23
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

If everything with the rigging is original to the boat the problem of excessive chaffe could be explained by many of things. My instinct
is the Flying jib at a 130% may be to large for your arrangement. The other issue is the clew of the sail. The clew of the sail on a true cutter is often referred to as a "High clew" and goes a long way to getting the sheets up and out of the way of the staysail.

If this was my boat I would try sailing with the jib furled down to smaller footprints to determine the ideal size for my vessel and to see or an issue of sail or boat handling while tacking. Also the consideration of sheeting angle may come into play.

If there is an owners association for your boat this would be a good source of info to see if other with like boats have experienced the same issue.

I have attached a link to a book called the "Gaff Rig Handbook", a truly great read on the history of cutters, the principles behind the design and all the information you would require about how to get the best out of these types.

The Gaff Rig Handbook History, Design, Techniques, Developments by John Leather 2001, Paperback | eBay#
__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2011, 07:02   #24
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardoin View Post
looking for tightly woven spectra that could be used for a long time.


So the suggestion to use a spectra cored line and cut back the covering may work, but it may make for quite a fuzzy line over time.
Uncovered spectra lines are very commonly used and don't in fact become fuzz balls. The Volvo and Vendee round the world boys use them because they are slippery and reduce friction (and of course weight). They have also been used to replace wire on fishing trawlers and other industrial applications. We have used uncovered spectra lines for our mainsail reef lines for 10,000's of miles and they don't chafe or fuzz much at all in that quite high load/high friction application. This WILL work and will solve your problem.

Tightly woven spectra cloth is very tricky, as tight weaving on a conventional loom creates enough heat to melt the spectra yarns.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2011, 15:02   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

FWIW,

There is another cloth being used for sacrificial covers on genoas. It is called WeatherMax and is polyester based, not acryllic. It is much more chafe resistant than Sunbrella, and claims similar UV resistance, and is available from Contender (in Australia at least).

We sewed up an awning from this stuff, and had the strip on our stays'l replaced with it. Both are doing fine, but are less than a year old, so can't offer personal data about longevity. Incidentally, much nicer to sew with than Sunbrella, less bulky when folded (awning) and better waterproofing (so far). Also a bit less expensive in Oz.

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2011, 16:08   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Alameda, CA
Boat: C&C Newport 41
Posts: 586
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

what about having your sail maker double (or tipple) up the sunbrella. it wont solve the problem but will drastically reduce the risk or sail damage.


is there a down side to this that i cant think of?

i will end up with a similar sail pattern so please let me know how you resolve this issue.

i suppose i can tie a chewy to the cover and send my puppy forward to 'retrieve' the cover when i am single handing and need to fly the staysail.
__________________
ssanzone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 06:09   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lexcen 40 - Leverage
Posts: 383
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Uncovered spectra lines are very commonly used and don't in fact become fuzz balls. The Volvo and Vendee round the world boys use them because they are slippery and reduce friction (and of course weight). They have also been used to replace wire on fishing trawlers and other industrial applications. We have used uncovered spectra lines for our mainsail reef lines for 10,000's of miles and they don't chafe or fuzz much at all in that quite high load/high friction application. This WILL work and will solve your problem.

Tightly woven spectra cloth is very tricky, as tight weaving on a conventional loom creates enough heat to melt the spectra yarns.
Hi Evans,

On this note - how are you attaching the uncovered spectra to your boom for your reef clew lines?
__________________
akio.kanemoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 14:37   #28
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by akio.kanemoto View Post
Hi Evans,

On this note - how are you attaching the uncovered spectra to your boom for your reef clew lines?
Halyard bend with a stopper knot in the end of the line.

By the way, for the OP, if you really want a burn proof sail cover, you want nomex fabric, which is easily available (unlike the ballistic spectra). This is what 'fire resistant' flight suits are made from.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 16:09   #29
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Genoa Sheet Burns on Furled Staysail . . . What to Do ?

Try out a clean Spectra lead - Spectra is very, very slick.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Genoa, sheets

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.