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Old 07-09-2016, 14:40   #1
Jd1
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Genny luff tension ?

Got a new 135 genoa last year. Didn't use it much until recently. Here is a picture:
Going under the assumption that my halyard is about as hard as I dare to crank it, is it reasonable to say that the sail will stretch to take out the wrinkles?
The halyard is really bar tight although it is a rather stretch halyard. Still, tension is tension ...
I had the sail to the sail maker to shorten the strap on the tack a bit assuming I was topped out for sail lift but it seems I have plenty of room left between the mast head and the top of the furling swivel.

The sail was recently exposed to some 25 knot winds and that seems to have possibly reduced the issue a bit but it is hard to say.
I tend to run the sheet to the front of the genoa track in order to prevent twist and spilling the top of the sail - could that be an issue causing the wrinkles or at least increase the issue ?

Do people usually attach the tack to the furler in order to avoid the sail coming away from the sail track between where it leaves the sail track and the furling drum? You can see a slight crease radiating out from where the sail leaves the track. I sure hope that this description makes at least a bit of sense .....
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Old 07-09-2016, 14:49   #2
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Genny luff tension ?

I don't know about yours, and I am no sailor so I hesitate to say anything, but when I went from a 110 Genoa to a 135, I had to slide the car way back, near the rear in most cases, and this may have nothing to do with the wrinkles
But let's someone else more experienced chime in, we will treat this as a bump


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Old 07-09-2016, 15:29   #3
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

That's a lot of wrinkle for a new sail. I'm confused how you could have:

a) the halyard bar tight
b) plenty of room between masthead and top of the swivel
c) still wrinkles.

I'd think that either 1) your halyard is getting caught somewhere, preventing it from actually hoisting fully, but jamming so it seem tight (unlikely), 2) your halyard clutch or cleat is slipping while you sail (likely...happens, especially with stronger winds), or 3) your luff is simply too long!

You mentioned the tack strap being shortened. About how long is it now? I've seen tacks attached to lower furling drum directly by shackle, and also extension straps/lashings added to raise the foot. Either works, but you probably want it as low as possible.

Do you have any photos of the masthead and upper swivel so we can see the distance there?
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Old 07-09-2016, 15:40   #4
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

More halyard tension, and you need to move the cars fore and aft based on the point of sail. Fed for off the wind sailing, aft for sailing hard on the wind. This takes a practiced eye to get the twist in the sail just right.


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Old 07-09-2016, 16:04   #5
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmattiola View Post
That's a lot of wrinkle for a new sail. I'm confused how you could have:

a) the halyard bar tight
b) plenty of room between masthead and top of the swivel
c) still wrinkles.

I'd think that either 1) your halyard is getting caught somewhere, preventing it from actually hoisting fully, but jamming so it seem tight (unlikely), 2) your halyard clutch or cleat is slipping while you sail (likely...happens, especially with stronger winds), or 3) your luff is simply too long!

You mentioned the tack strap being shortened. About how long is it now? I've seen tacks attached to lower furling drum directly by shackle, and also extension straps/lashings added to raise the foot. Either works, but you probably want it as low as possible.

Do you have any photos of the masthead and upper swivel so we can see the distance there?
I'm puzzled too. Those three would be my guesses also.

But, without photos of the head and tack, we are all just guessing.
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Old 07-09-2016, 16:07   #6
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

I believe you are correct that you are not getting a full hoist on the sail. You probably have a Schaefer 2100 furler, the luff groove tolerance is very close and may be binding such that it jams before full hoist. There are 2 grooves in the furler, the one that goes unused collects dirt that also binds. Take it down, spray some sailkote in the groove (try the OTHER one) and on the luff tape as you feed it in. If you still have some wrinkles try putting some downward pressure on the tack to see if it flattens. Also when you get a full hoist the tack should pull the bottom drum up some.
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Old 07-09-2016, 16:09   #7
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Another possibility is that the sailmaker stuffed up when sewing the luff tape to the sail, making it too short. Then the tape takes the tension but leaves the sail slack.

Jim
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Old 07-09-2016, 16:11   #8
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Yep, the halyard is stretching/slipping/not tight enough to start with, and the lead is too far forward for going on the wind (separate problem).
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Old 07-09-2016, 16:29   #9
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Quote:
Another possibility is that the sailmaker stuffed up when sewing the luff tape to the sail, making it too short. Then the tape takes the tension but leaves the sail slack
I had the same thought but reserved as a "worst case scenario".
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Old 07-09-2016, 17:10   #10
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif.Ted View Post
I had the same thought but reserved as a "worst case scenario".
In some ways, yes, but if it is a local loft, and they are worth anything at all, they would resew that tape in a flash.

If it came from some distant place, not so easy to return, but a local loft can do it, and it shouldn't cost too much.

I hope that it is a simple tension issue...

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Old 07-09-2016, 17:30   #11
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Thanks for all your comments. I will do a simple test tomorrow - hoist the sail without the tack attached. That should once and for all eliminate the 'not enough hoist' issue.
When I had the sail made I wanted a tack strap to get a little space between the deck and the sail. I think it's about 8" or so but that is a guess. I had it shortened because I thought I was not getting enough hoist.
The luff tape sewing is what I suspect now but I am not experienced enough to call the sail maker out on it. Yes, it is a local loft and yes, they have been responsive to the issues even though the sail is over a year old.
Anybody care to comment on making a connection between the tack and the furling drum to prevent the sail from being stretched away from the forestay area ? This issue will increase if I move the lead back further as I will put more tension onto the sail foot.
Any quantitative suggestions on halyard tension ? I know I can play a nice tune with it if I were to strum (sp?) it
Considering that the sail stays up always, does it really make sense to put in a hi tech halyard? So the halyard stretches x inches .... big deal .... as long as the tension is there. Please correct me if I am wrong and I will gladly change the halyard.
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Old 07-09-2016, 17:39   #12
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

There is definitely insufficient tension on luff, give it a real crank. Genoa car is a bit too far forward as well.
Concern about the wrinkles at the feeder point as this may mean the tack cut back is wrong. But may be fixed by increasing the halyard tension.
As a rule of thumb, grab the sail luff (leading edge) below the feeder where it is is exposed. It should be quite firm and hard to move sideways. But on picture that halyard tension is very soft..


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Old 07-09-2016, 17:48   #13
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Without seeing photos of the tack, we can't be sure - but generally, yes the tack should be attached to the top of the bottom furler drum as close as possible to the forestay.
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Old 07-09-2016, 17:54   #14
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
Thanks for all your comments. I will do a simple test tomorrow - hoist the sail without the tack attached. That should once and for all eliminate the 'not enough hoist' issue.
Try to attach a handy billy as a sort of cunningham at the tack and full it down hard once you have done that?
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Old 07-09-2016, 18:05   #15
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Re: Genny luff tension ?

Looks as if:

a) the sail is not all the way up. Halyard tension is not an indication. Ease the tack attachment. Can you hoist the sail at least 4 inches above the tack attachment point now? If you can, then check b below:

b) the sailmaker did a poor job. Wrong bolt rope tension or wrong bolt rope TAPE tension. I would guess the latter. Easy to tell with the sail off the foil and held horizontal in flat air (tie off two corners, hold the third one).

Maybe something else too. Just my 2 guesses.

b.
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