Galvanized or Stainless Steel Rigging?

[moniia]

Originally Posted by dlymn

I'm replacing my mainstays. Stainless wire etc 300 euros, riggers 400 euros. Have you checked that your insurer approves galv wires and self rigging?

Don't care about insurers, they don't want to look at my boat anyway and I prefer to keep the money

[Pauls]

Hi Jim

Good post. And I generally agree with your points. However, I consider two rigging failures to be two too many. Some rigging points can fail and the rig can survive, but there are others that will lose the rig.

Galv wire has superior fatigue resistance characteristics. To my point of view, the combination of excellent strength/elasticity characteristics, longevity and low cost make galv a superior choice for a cruising boat. Prepared as I've described with coal tar paint and then covered with thin wall plastic tubing it is virtually zero maintainance. It is a little larger diameter than stainless (due to the plastic tubing cover) so there is a little more windage. It is also the most chafe free rigging I know of, the most reliable and longest lived. (The plastic tubing material is used for self lubricating plain bearings). It is a perfect galvanic match with poured zinc sockets which are probably the best wire termination and allow DIY rigging anywhere (as do Sta-Loks).

In my opinion much of the resistance to galv is due to a lack of application of modern technology for rust protection. Slushing and serving is 19th century technology. We have better materials now.

Industry, where there is high dollar investment, heavy use and huge liability concerns almost never uses stainless wire. Galv steel has its plus points.

[Jim Cate]

for Paul and Ben (Snow P.),

You make lots of good points favoring galvo, and I can see where you are coming from. I'm glad that Ben has been able to source the wire for his new rig, and I'll be interested to have a look when it is done. I'd think that any industrial rigging shop would be able to do the Tellurit swaging, but unlikely to find a yottie rigger with the gear or knowledge. Ben, why do you think the bending characteristics for the galvo rig will be better than the s/s rod? And in particular, why for the deep reef situation? And the BS(that's breaking strength, not a comment on veracity) you quote for the 2070 galvo is a lot higher than that I found in a generic table. Are there other tradeoffs in using the higher grade wire? And finally, why the mix in 1x19 and 7x7 construction?

For Paul, yes, two failed s/s wires are too many, even when spread over so many years and miles. But am I not correct in saying that galvo is not suitable for stays with furlers? The forestay failure we had was in 316 1x19 wire... the only time I've not used compact strand wire in the last 20 years. I was advised by a "pro" that compact strand would not work inside a furler. Subsequently that view has been proven wrong, and we've used cs wire quite successfully in our furlers for a long time. At any rate, failure at the exit point from the upper terminal is all too common in furler stays. I believe that better toggles will reduce that risk, as will not using the sail reefed way down... but I digress! Inspection of that exit point is awkward in many installations, and considering all that, I've been replacing the forestay more frequently than the rest of the rig. If galvo wire with similar stretch and strength numbers would really work there, I might be tempted!

And for Reed1, I'm kinda amused that you think my experience with s/s wire is that of a weekend warrior. Your viewpoint is noted.

And finally, for Monila: Your application is unusual to say the least. Not setting any sails from your forestays, but setting them flying??? Good luck sailing to windward with that, and dealing with the sails in harsh conditions. I reckon that the nature of the wire will not be your paramount concern then.

To all who have contributed to this thread, thanks for an interesting and sometimes challenging discussion.

Jim

[Wotname]

An associated question: does anyone (anywhere) know if coal tar epoxy paint is still available at the retail level?

My understanding (but not knowledge) is that is has been banned (at least in Australia) due to health (cancer) concerns; it might be available for industrial/ professional use.

I last used it 80's but could not source it at a retail level in the 00's

[moniia]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

(...).



And finally, for Monila: Your application is unusual to say the least. Not setting any sails from your forestays, but setting them flying??? Good luck sailing to windward with that, and dealing with the sails in harsh conditions. I reckon that the nature of the wire will not be your paramount concern then.



(...)

Thank you for a good word, didn't have any problems so far
But I see you didn't read it fully - in harsh conditions sails go down in size (believe me, changing them on the FURLERS is very quick... ), and if it gets even harsher - they go down completely to be replaced by storm jib and staysail which are actually living on stays. With shackles not hanks- I found it safer in heavy weather...

So to repeat, I DO use stays. Just for limited sails. And I can change sails easily between according to conditions. And - if check what stuff is used in luff of FURLING (not reefed) sail you may start to reconsider my ability to get a proper shape from my front sails.

If not - I don't care. I know it works

[moniia]

Originally Posted by Wotname

An associated question: does anyone (anywhere) know if coal tar epoxy paint is still available at the retail level?

My understanding (but not knowledge) is that is has been banned (at least in Australia) due to health (cancer) concerns; it might be available for industrial/ professional use.

I last used it 80's but could not source it at a retail level in the 00's

I'm not sure about Australia, I found two after quick look online, one on my side of the pond

And one the other:


I would ask at Hempel's directly - they should know the situation in your place.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by moniia

Don't care about insurers, they don't want to look at my boat anyway and I prefer to keep the money

Insurers are somewhat ignorant with their 10year rule -- ss rigging in the tropics often fails much earlier while in cold climates the wires last much longer.

Insurance is 3 things.
1 The only way you get into a marina.
2 The careful subsidising the careless.
3 Very high incomes for the CEO to compensate them for required unscrupulous behaviour.

As far as pretty goes; ss has it all over galv.(which is one big reason modern boats use it)
As far as safety goes; galv has it all over ss.

[Pauls]

Coal tar epoxy is retail available in the US and Canada. Two suppliers I am faimliar with are Progressive Epoxy Polymers and Wasser. There are probably many more.