Furling Mainsail or Not ?

[micah719]

Jam cleats

Self tailing winches

[Normanby]

Silly question from an inexperienced new-comer:
How about a mainsail on a furler outside, just aft, of the mast, with no boom at all?
I've occasionally seen boomless rigs.
Would that be a bad idea because you could never get the sail flat enough to work properly?

[Lagoon4us]

Jammers lock your sheet rope into position so you can run another sheet to the same winch, loops is simply throw a few turns (usually 3) onto the winch and tail the sheet.

The original post is 12 months old, not that that makes much difference, welcome and cheers Frank.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Normanby

Silly question from an inexperienced new-comer:
How about a mainsail on a furler outside, just aft, of the mast, with no boom at all?
I've occasionally seen boomless rigs.
Would that be a bad idea because you could never get the sail flat enough to work properly?

No battens = no sail shape, i use a furling boom, works well and is fully battened.
Cheers

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Normanby

Silly question from an inexperienced new-comer:
How about a mainsail on a furler outside, just aft, of the mast, with no boom at all?
I've occasionally seen boomless rigs.
Would that be a bad idea because you could never get the sail flat enough to work properly?

Also welcome, there are NO silly questions......

[micah719]

That would be like a flying jib, but with the luff behind the mast in the dirty air. Might as well go for a spritsail, depending on the size of boat. Or one of the lug rigs, or lateen.

I think humans have covered pretty much all the sail combinations over history, and the classical working boats used what worked best and was cheapest and easiest. We're getting exotic these days because we have materials they didn't have, and have different requirements.

[micah719]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Also welcome, there are NO silly questions......

Tell that to my boss.....it seems the sensible Aussie practice of permitting questions is verboten here. I think he expects telepathy and omniscience.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by micah719

Tell that to my boss.....it seems the sensible Aussie practice of permitting questions is verboten here. I think he expects telepathy and omniscience.

LMAO you need to get out sailing!!! We just anchored north of TROGIR in a lovely bay. going ashore for dinner soon, the grandkids are just having a shower, we will hit the Babic tonight! Cheers

[Lagoon4us]

Lateen/bezaan eventually = Bermudian and little changes to today. Here in Adriatic on any given day you see many out, fantastic class racing of 30 yachts in one fleet Lateen...

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Lateen/bezaan eventually = Bermudian and little changes to today. Here in Adriatic on any given day you see many out, fantastic class racing of 30 yachts in one fleet Lateen...

We were anchored in this bay 2 weeks ago on ZLARIN and the race started!!!! GREAT FUN....

[micah719]

Lagoon, go have some fun for me.

Are these racing lateens anything like those from the Canaries? If so, they might be tacking like classic dipping lugs, passing the tack behind the mast. Is this so? The thing I'm interested in, is how they jibe.

My desperation interim project will be a Caledonia Yawl with dipping lug but I'm interested in the Beer Lugger method of tacking, where the long continuous sheet is used to haul the sail and yard around in front of the mast. In my mental simulation jibing could be done the same way, but I'm keen to learn how it is done in reality.

The attraction of the more traditional rig is simplicity and economy....unstayed mast, simpler materials.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Acciola

Hi, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post

Excuse me if this might sound like a stupid question but what did you mean by 'a couple of jammers and loops'. What are they?

Jammers are essentially lever actuated cleats, with the lever engaged the line is held in place against strain in one direction, in the other direction you can still pull the line in. The are more generally known as rope or line clutches.


Throwing some loops on a self-tailer means to load the line on to the winch so you can pull the line in. A winch allows you to pull the line harder than you could alone. A winch normally requires 2 people to use quickly, 1 can use it more slowly and not at maximum load. A self-tailing winch eliminates the need for the second person.

In order to create enough friction on the line to pull the winch needs several turns around the drum to work. The higher the load to be pulled the more turns required.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

LMAO you need to get out sailing!!! We just anchored north of TROGIR in a lovely bay. going ashore for dinner soon, the grandkids are just having a shower, we will hit the Babic tonight! Cheers

Not. To sound to pedantic, but north of Trogir I only remember mountains, no bay, not even a lot of water...

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Jammers are essentially lever actuated cleats, with the lever engaged the line is held in place against strain in one direction, in the other direction you can still pull the line in. The are more generally known as rope or line clutches.


Throwing some loops on a self-tailer means to load the line on to the winch so you can pull the line in. A winch allows you to pull the line harder than you could alone. A winch normally requires 2 people to use quickly, 1 can use it more slowly and not at maximum load. A self-tailing winch eliminates the need for the second person.

In order to create enough friction on the line to pull the winch needs several turns around the drum to work. The higher the load to be pulled the more turns required.

Clutches and jammers are not the same. This is a jammer.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by savoir

Clutches and jammers are not the same. This is a jammer.

I knew that they weren't the same but since very few jammers can be released under load, most especially larger line jammers that would be used with a halyard, and most or all clutches can I assumed the poster that originally made the comment was misusing the term and tried to steer the person asking about the term to the better alternative without getting pedantic about it.

Even some of the professionals can't keep the terms straight: Rope clutch or rope jammer - quality sailing gear at Garhauer marine equipment, New Zealand by Garhauer Marine Equipment NZ Ltd

Except for the referrence to the the lever the OP might have been referring to a jam cleat.

Rope clutches are easier on the lines than jammers but have a larger footprint and are more expensive generally.