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Old 18-05-2011, 18:15   #1
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Extra Shrouds

Ok so here's the concern. I bought a Bristol 24, and the original rig had been sold while it was in the boat yard. They included the rig from a Columbia 26 which (as far as I can tell) has very similar demensions and shouldn't provide any trouble. I was just getting the mast ready to be stepped and I noticed that there are two sets of sids stays midway up the mast under the spreaders in addition to the two coming down from the mast head. I only have chain plates for a forestay, a backstay, and two on the sides. Since the two under the spreaders are in the same place, can I get away not using two of them, should I remove them and keep them as spares, or should I mount another backing plate so there will be three stays on each side?
I would think it should be fine with two per side, but I don't want to cut corners if it's going to be unsafe. Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks!
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Old 18-05-2011, 18:28   #2
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Re: Extra Shrouds

The mast was designed to have forward and aft lower shrouds. Your boat apparently had single lowers. You could change the tangs on the mast to use a single lower and hope it doesn't fall down. Best to consult an naval engineer/architect to get a reading what the mast needs for shrouds. Robert Perry hangs out here occasionally, could ask him to give you an opinion. Shouldn't cost a whole bunch. You'll need the thickness and dimensions of the mast extrusion, The placement of the shroud chainplates in relation to the mast centerline, height of the spreaders/lower shroud attachment and total height of the mast.

If the Columbia 26 has a roller reefing boom, don't use the reefing. Add cheek blocks for slab riffing and have the main built with reef points. Had roller reefing boom on my Columbia 26 and it was sorriest excuse for a reefing system that I've ever seen. Impossible to get a good setting sail, time waster to reef, and ruined the sail the first time I reefed.
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Old 18-05-2011, 18:39   #3
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Re: Extra Shrouds

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Impossible to get a good setting sail, time waster to reef, and ruined the sail the first time I reefed.
You've confirmed again what I've heard about the Pearson roller booms. I probably have the same one on my Alberg which I have never used because of all the negative things I've heard. The mechanism is nice but the idea of neatly rolling a sail onto it is lame.
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Old 18-05-2011, 18:54   #4
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You've confirmed again what I've heard about the Pearson roller booms. I probably have the same one on my Alberg which I have never used because of all the negative things I've heard. The mechanism is nice but the idea of neatly rolling a sail onto it is lame.
All the old roller booms were crap.....even in Europe..
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Old 18-05-2011, 19:02   #5
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Re: Extra Shrouds

Yeah I've heard only negatives about the roller reefing. I'm going to head out for a test sail tomorrow if all goes well, it's supposed to be pretty light winds, but I'll look more into the original layout for the Columbia 26 so I can see about tacking the shrouds down in the right place. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 18-05-2011, 22:51   #6
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Re: Extra Shrouds

It would appear that the Bristol 24 did indeed have single lower shrouds that attached at teh same chainplate as the upper shrouds.

Here is a photo I found online of a Bristol 24:
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Old 20-05-2011, 07:59   #7
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Re: Extra Shrouds

I just tried getting the mast up yesterday, and after a lot of twisting, cranking, lifting, and enlisting help from innocent bystanders I was able to get it vertical and onto the step, it was only then that we found out that although the forestay and backstay were the right length, all six of the available shrouds were about 16 inches too short. My turnbuckles weren't even close to reaching. Instead of having to buy all new wire I thought I could just hack down the bottom of the mast and that would even it out, but then I realized that the fore and back stays would be too long then. Are there ways to make this work wothout getting all new rigging. Do they make extra long turnbuckles or stay extenders? Anybody else have similar experience to this?
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Old 20-05-2011, 08:18   #8
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Re: Extra Shrouds

Well that really sucks! ??Maybe use some chain (they are attached to CHAIN plates) to make up the difference until you get a chance to replace them?? There are shroud extenders but 16" is a long way. Some pcs. of s.s. flatstock would work- 2 each on each chainplate. You'd need 4 pcs of maybe 48"x3/4"x1/8." If you hack down the mast, your sails will not fit.
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Old 20-05-2011, 09:05   #9
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Re: Extra Shrouds

They attatch to thick stainless tangs that are bolted through the side of the hull, no through the deck. I found some Ronstan stay extenders that might work, but they are 36" long, so I may just get a couple and cut them in half, but I'd feel safer with a heftier option. Maybe I'll try using the flatstock. Thanks!
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Old 20-05-2011, 13:37   #10
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Re: Extra Shrouds

Yes on using the flat stock. Two pieces per stay. They are called links. I don't know the specs on the Ronstan extenders but if it is the same thickness and width as the tangs on your mast then they would be strong enough.
Cutting your mast is not a bad idea if it is taller than the original. It is pretty easy to cut your shrouds and swage new thimbles into the ends. All you need is new thimbles, ferules and an inexpensive swaging tool that you can set up in a vice. It is always a challenge rigging something from one boat to go to another. Good luck.
kind regards,
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Old 20-05-2011, 16:54   #11
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Re: Extra Shrouds

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
It is pretty easy to cut your shrouds and swage new thimbles into the ends. All you need is new thimbles, ferules and an inexpensive swaging tool that you can set up in a vice. It is always a challenge rigging something from one boat to go to another. Good luck.
kind regards,
Can't say that I agree here, mate. One imagines that the shrouds are 1x19 wire, and that configuration does not do well wrapped around thimbles and Nicopressed. That puts all the load on the few outer wires where they bend around the thimble... they soon fail putting all the load on the next few, and all too soon then the whole lot fails. Not recommended by any riggers that I know.

The thimble plus nicopress route works well on flexible wire like 7x7 or 7x19, though.

For the OP: are your sails cut for the original mast or the new one? If original, then shortening the new mast to match the old one should be OK, and then the wires will be more likely to fit. If you have to extend the stays on the cheap, chain will work. Looks a bit agricultural, tho'...

Cheers,
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Old 20-05-2011, 18:28   #12
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Re: Extra Shrouds

If you're going to lop 16" off the mast, you'll have to move the gooseneck up which is why I figured your sails will not work. If you dont raise the gooseneck, the boom will probably be way too low. It will also completely screw up the sailing characteristics of the boat unless, of course, the mast you have is NOT the one that belongs on it. Have you looked up the specs on how long the mast should be and whether the sails you have are the right ones. Something sounds fishy.
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Old 20-05-2011, 20:07   #13
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Re: Extra Shrouds

The cost of new rigging for the shrouds on a 24' boat can't be very much. Bite the bullet, buy Norseman/StaLok terminals, the proper length of 316 wire and just do it properly. If you want to save a little money, you may be able to cut the upper (Cap) shrouds in half and you'd only need new terminals for the lower half. At the worst you'd get at least two lower shrouds out of the cap shrouds.

Oh!! just remembered, you've got single lowers so you only need to replace the Cap Shrouds.
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Old 21-05-2011, 08:26   #14
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Re: Extra Shrouds

The rig is from a Columbia 26, the boat is a Bristol 24. I just got new sails (for the rig, not the boat) and although I could deal with the boom, being a bit lower, the thing that wouldn't work is the jib being too long. I think I've eliminated the mast cutting from my solutions.
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Old 30-05-2011, 22:35   #15
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Re: Extra Shrouds

These turnbuckles and StaLok end fittings might work for your boat. All you'd need is wire and new terminal cones to rerig the boat.
Turnbuckles Sailboat With Sta-Lok and Extension Plates | eBay
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