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Old 10-12-2013, 15:51   #31
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

What is the reason for the heat shrink? Is it purely aesthetic? I do quite a lot of Spectra cored double braid splices (it is a popular choice around here for halyards) and I generally end up cutting the (hollow) cover about 1 diameter from the entry point of the splice and whipping it down onto the main body of the rope. This generally looks pretty neat and tidy. My experiences with heat-shrink on rope, especially where exposed to the elephants, has been less than stellar.
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Old 10-12-2013, 15:59   #32
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

Say, Patrick, where do you keep those elephants on Insatiable? My Insatiable does not have an elephant storage facility!

Jim
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:02   #33
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
and the other end . . . a bit longer splice. There is sewing and whipping under the heat shrink _ I don't think it is needed but it takes no time so why not. You can see the 80lb test spectra mono whipping just at the loop end of this heat shrink. The heat shrink makes everything neat and protects the stitching from UV.

Attachment 71842

I realize looking at this, if you wanted to take more time, you could have it look prettier by tapering the cover tail under the heat shrink. I have never done that.

Also, One caution about using heat shrink around spectra . . . spectra has a low melting temp, and you can damage it if you go overboard with a heat gun. The safest way to shrink the tube is to stick it in boiling water, which will shrink the tube but not damage the spectra. You can also use a heat gun, but you just have to be gentle.
Spectra (Dyneema, same thing) is damaged at temperatures approaching boiling point and lose a significant portion of residual strength permanently.

See http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/...PT2012_WEB.pdf
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:02   #34
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

Hey Pat,

Did they mistake the heat shrink for peanuts?

Ann
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:22   #35
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

Weyalan, you got a pic of that technique? ( the DB splice) not elephant related
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:41   #36
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

Sorry, no pictures to hand. Maybe next Spectra halyard I do I'll snap a couple. In case it wasn't obvious (I'm sure most of you got it), "elephants" = "elements" - a permanent crew joke on board Insatiable.
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Old 10-12-2013, 17:10   #37
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

Ocean,

He are is the core to core splice for endurabraid. http://www.neropes.com/Splicing%20Gu...EYE_SPLICE.pdf

Like I mentioned I don't use it preferring to do a taper then an eye as separate steps since I don't think of the cover as adding to the finished product except where it hits clutches/winches or as a tail. For this I use a modified Splicing Guide - Tapering the Cover on High-Tech Ropes in that I make the taper longer, and more uniformed, just like I do for amsteel.

I should point out that I have no issue with the core-core splice, but my background is primarily race boats where shaving weight, particularly on sail trims is critically important. This has colored my view somewhat.

For my Grand Prix level work we don't even use endurabraid, just raw dyneema with cores and covers spliced on where needed to control abrasion and handling. But these lines get pretty labor intensive for most people.
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Old 10-12-2013, 19:51   #38
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
Spectra (Dyneema, same thing) is damaged at temperatures approaching boiling point and lose a significant portion of residual strength permanently.

See http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/...PT2012_WEB.pdf
Sailfast . . . I was involved in temp testing exactly with Samson . . . not the one you linked to, but for much thinner life lines. As I said in a post above . . .you should use a light hand, but if you do, there was no strength loss in our tests.

You will note in the document you linked to they are talking about double digit hours at temperature, and then say (highlighted in italics) "we have determined that Amsteel Blue and other Samson Dyneema products will have negligible degradation due to high temperature ports".
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Old 10-12-2013, 20:00   #39
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

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Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
What is the reason for the heat shrink? Is it purely aesthetic? I do quite a lot of Spectra cored double braid splices (it is a popular choice around here for halyards) and I generally end up cutting the (hollow) cover about 1 diameter from the entry point of the splice and whipping it down onto the main body of the rope. This generally looks pretty neat and tidy. My experiences with heat-shrink on rope, especially where exposed to the elephants, has been less than stellar.
My personal experience with stitching is that it gets UV damaged (after a couple years), and benefits from being covered. In the case of this splice, the cover stitching is not all that big a deal (because its under no load), but the core stitching is also under there, and it is more important. The tubing both protects it and keeps it neat. I use halyards quite along time, perhaps a decade or more (my jib halyard is 16 years old right now - T900) . . . probably the racers go thru their halyards faster than that.

I suspect heat shrink tubing quality varies widely. This stuff, with adhesive lining, as held up well for me.

Anyway, it's how I do it . . . A bit belt and braces . . . .as all the recommended stitching and whipping is also there.
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Old 10-12-2013, 23:26   #40
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

Weyalan, are you saying you whip above and below the throat of the eye?
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:35   #41
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Re: Endura Braid Classic, splice

One thing I learned (re-remembered) when doing the above splice is that the firmness of the core braid effects how well different splices go.

The line I was using above had a very very softly braided core. I actually tried to make the 'cover bury and then single braid loop' splice that stubble is suggesting above . . . But it looked like crap because the core braid was really not firm enough to be on its own. It worked when tensioned around a thimble, where the thimble gave some structure to the core. But even then, the cover bury part was sloppy. The "cut off and whipped cover right at the throat of the splice" (then with the loop around a thimble) approach that ocean girl did further up the thread was the cleanest approach for (a single braid type splice) this soft core.

So, if you are going to do the 'single braid' type splices, with DB line, the core needs to be firm enough (as firm as a single braid is).

It would be interesting to know/have a table that indicated which line had a 'firm core' and which find not. I just got this line at the local WM . . . It was the only spectra cored DB they carried (at least in that store). Interesting, they must gave dropped New England ropes, as they used to have endura.

Normally, if I have to make a quick splice (say on passage) I will do the uncovered "single braid" splice, and then when I have time redo it as a covered DB splice (to keep the UV off the core). Most of my dyneema DB splices either have a thimble or are around a shackle. I guess the only exception are the jib sheets that have tight soft eyes and then soft shackles to the clew.

Interestingly, I was talking with Stan Honey once about knots and splices, and he said the Volvo boys just use a bunt line hitch when they need something at sea (quickly). He said, at least on the boats he had been on, he could not remember one breaking (because the lines are all sized for stretch rather than strength).
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