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Old 03-08-2013, 20:17   #1
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Emergency Storm Jib

"Storm Bag" vs "The Gale Sail". Anyone experienced with either of these sails? Or have you better ideas?

The Storm Bag: http://www.bluewatersupplies.com/storm_bag.htm
The Gale Sail: http://www.atninc.com/atn-gale-sail-sailing-equipment.shtml

Both ideas seem effective - once the sail is deployed. Mind you, after watching the video for the Gale Sale I'm less than impressed re ease of attachment. The Storm Bag system seems more straight forward during rough seas.

So... Have you used one of these? If yes, what's your opinion?

I've a roller-reef genoa, a triple-reef main, a storm try'sl on a separate track, a hank-on stay'sl and hank-on storm stay'sl. But the concept of those over-the-roller sails as backup intrigues me.

At the moment my "last chance" head sail idea would involve an old hank-on stay'sl using the spinaker and stay'sl halyards (and/ or the spare mainsail halyard) some snatch blocks, and a little McGyver-esque work. It would be sloppy, but hopefully should help somewhat. What's your plan?

Disclaimer: Yes, the ideas of repairing a torn sail by stitching or with contact cement and scrap canvas is lodged into my brain. Been there; done that. The point of those sails, for me, would be "just get something flying up front while I work on the other problems".

James
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Old 03-08-2013, 20:26   #2
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

Man, I thought I was bad with collecting sails!


Edit: Just looked at the Storm Bag...pretty neat concept
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Old 03-08-2013, 20:40   #3
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
Man, I thought I was bad with collecting sails!


Edit: Just looked at the Storm Bag...pretty neat concept
Yeah, well... Along with the light-air spin drifter those sails are either all new or in pretty good condition. What we fly depends on wxr conditions. Want a ripped out and too-often repaired main or stay'sl or jib? Good bargain prices: you pay the shipping costs!

James
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:08   #4
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

Quote:
Originally Posted by svmariane View Post
"Storm Bag" vs "The Gale Sail". Anyone experienced with either of these sails? Or have you better ideas?

The Storm Bag: Storm Bag
The Gale Sail: ATN Sailing Equipment | The Gale Sail | Easy Handling Storm Jib

Both ideas seem effective - once the sail is deployed. Mind you, after watching the video for the Gale Sale I'm less than impressed re ease of attachment. The Storm Bag system seems more straight forward during rough seas.

So... Have you used one of these? If yes, what's your opinion?

I've a roller-reef genoa, a triple-reef main, a storm try'sl on a separate track, a hank-on stay'sl and hank-on storm stay'sl. But the concept of those over-the-roller sails as backup intrigues me.

I own a steel cutter and in my view you already have the bases fully covered. If your storm trysail and hank on storm staysail are too much for the conditions, then the conditions are too much for fiddling with this gadget as far forward as the headsail roller reefing. The spin halyard would be like a weighted whip.

I would be trailing drogues and running off under the staysail at that stage, not trying to point higher, because beyond Force 10 is no time for fiddly sail handling.

If I had a typical sloop, my reaction would be quite different, but yours is the case of a man with a knife, fork, spoon, nut pick, sugar tongs and chopsticks asking if he should buy the red or the blue spork.

If you want to spend the two grand, get a second storm staysail or maybe a newer EPIRB.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:37   #5
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

Hi, guys,

There are a lot of boats today that have no provision for an inner forestay for storm sails. And most of them have roller furling heads'ls. If such a vessel's owner wants to have a storm jib, that he won't have to drop his heads'l to use, then one way for him or her to solve that problem is to consider at what wind and sea states he'd want to deploy it, and look for potential difficulties with the concept. "What could possibly go wrong?" one of my favorite questions.

I looked at both the Gale Sail and the Storm Bag, and in their ads, it seemed to me that the GS made some pretty questionable allegations. I especially wonder whether it would be a lot harder to hoist safely, while you're trying to get the sleeve aloft over the genoa, with the clew flogging around like a mad thing.

No experience with either one.

But this is only me, Jim, with the greater experience (and especially as a singlehander) may weigh in on this one, and his is the opinion i'd heed.

Ann
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:08   #6
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

I must be old school, only have hank on sails, have seen to many problems w/ roller reefing under pressure or sudden gales. I prefer a storm jib and trisail on a separate track for the heavy stuff..{60 knts and up} ..Michael..
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:34   #7
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Hi, guys,

There are a lot of boats today that have no provision for an inner forestay for storm sails. And most of them have roller furling heads'ls. If such a vessel's owner wants to have a storm jib, that he won't have to drop his heads'l to use, then one way for him or her to solve that problem is to consider at what wind and sea states he'd want to deploy it, and look for potential difficulties with the concept. "What could possibly go wrong?" one of my favorite questions.

I looked at both the Gale Sail and the Storm Bag, and in their ads, it seemed to me that the GS made some pretty questionable allegations. I especially wonder whether it would be a lot harder to hoist safely, while you're trying to get the sleeve aloft over the genoa, with the clew flogging around like a mad thing.

No experience with either one.

But this is only me, Jim, with the greater experience (and especially as a singlehander) may weigh in on this one, and his is the opinion i'd heed.

Ann

There are a couple of issues here for me looking at the two sails.

The Storm Bag is a lot of fabric. Someone observed that when they pulled it down it was extremely difficult to re-fold and that, partly because it is a sail with two sides, unfolded it filled the main saloon (on a 34' boat). While it may be the best sail for the job I worry that people would hesitate to use it because of such difficulties. It occurs to me that it would also be wet ...

But read about the Gale Sail, and you find that it requires two hands to attach to the furled sail. Unless you have three or more people on the boat, that means either leave the helm untended (and my boat is unsteady without some headsail up), or throw "one hand for yourself" overside at a time when you might really not want to do that.

So I'm thinking, "What could I do with a tether that would keep me more or less locked in place?"

Need to see the Storm Bag Sail. Perhaps one could drop it and simply leave it on deck (secured, of course) and not have to deal with it while the seas were still rough.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:35   #8
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

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I must be old school, only have hank on sails, have seen to many problems w/ roller reefing under pressure or sudden gales. I prefer a storm jib and trisail on a separate track for the heavy stuff..{60 knts and up} ..Michael..

If I had a 27' boat I'd still have hank-on headsails also. The ability of a furled roller furler to turn into a parachute is one reason I keep thinking about things like Gale Sails.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:08   #9
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

I consider 35 feet the break point for both hank-on sails and tiller helming. If I had a boat in that zone without furling, I would not bother purchasing it; if I had a boat bigger than that without a wheel and furling on the headsail, I would install it.

Our 33 footer is tiller-helmed and has hank-on sails. We like speed and pointing ability, and this suits us. We keep an old Autohelm tillerpilot for those times when the wind is feeble and we prefer to motor.

On our steel 41 foot cutter, I currently have a furling headsail, a hank-on staysail, and a slab-reefed main. Steering is hydraulic from the aft deck helm and from inside the pilothouse, but can be bypassed in favour of tiller steering on the transom-hung rudder, which is the sailing option with the wind vane. Motoring, we would choose an AP for a separate hydraulic ram.

I would add to this mix a separate trysail track and would change little else.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:34   #10
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
If I had a 27' boat I'd still have hank-on headsails also. The ability of a furled roller furler to turn into a parachute is one reason I keep thinking about things like Gale Sails.
I agree w/ you on that, At this time I don't know how much weather an O Day 27 will take. My Haida 26 could handle up to 45-50 knts before needing to go to the storm sails. The Haida is a very seaworthy vessel for it's size. ..Michael..
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:03   #11
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

Sounds like you have a very good assortment of sails to handle 99.5% of the weather you will find if you sail within the seasons. My experience has me wanting more light air sails when I'm offshore
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Old 04-08-2013, 13:42   #12
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Indeed. You have an excellent set of storm sails and can't imagine how you could possibly use more. I would spend my money on better working sails or more downwind sails, personally.

On my boat, there is a permanently rigged heavyweight staysail, on oversized roller furling gear and with Dyneema halyard and sheet. It's bulletproof and all I could possibly need for a storm jib, and it is deployable from the cockpit. Also self-tacking, a great asset in tough conditions. I've used it in wind over 50 knots and have never even reefed it. I think about a trysail - I have the special track in the mast - but even that is not strictly needed since I have an in-mast furling main which sets well when rolled down to a tiny scrap. The trysail is only needed in case, God forbid, I rip the mainsail.
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Old 04-08-2013, 13:51   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

If I had a 27' boat I'd still have hank-on headsails also. The ability of a furled roller furler to turn into a parachute is one reason I keep thinking about things like Gale Sails.
Properly sized and maintained roller furling is quite bulletproof, and is incomparably safer to use in rough weather. Hank-ons have some aerodynamic advantages, but you will not be thinking about that in a storm.
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Old 04-08-2013, 14:12   #14
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

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Properly sized and maintained roller furling is quite bulletproof, and is incomparably safer to use in rough weather. Hank-ons have some aerodynamic advantages, but you will not be thinking about that in a storm.

Dockhead, take a look at the Hood 810. That's what is on my boat. and then tell me how bullet-proof it is.
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Old 04-08-2013, 14:17   #15
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Re: Emergency Storm Jib

Thoughtful comments, and I thank all for posting.

Became aware of these type sails and just got to fantasizing, I guess.

Will stick with what I've got - they've proven effective. {The storm try and storm stay'sl once let us heave to when the winds approached 60 knts.}

Thanks again for the input!

Now I'm off to research something uncontroversial, like a replacement anchor and chain....

James
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