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Old 15-09-2015, 20:49   #31
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

I'm not sure what it's called but here's the setup on my Pearson Triton (very similar to the Cape Dory 28):



Partly necessary to make room for the outboard well but also I agree with the earlier comment that these boats are never going to point well with genoa tracks on the rails and long keels. But, given this is a known shortcoming, perhaps you ought to improve the traveller even if for just one more degree?

Depends on how you sail...I tend to set it and the windvane and just enjoy:

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Old 15-09-2015, 21:02   #32
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

On our Oceanis 38 we don't have a traveller, it uses the arch & spring block mainsheet system they've gone to generally.

We have a set of shackle blocks on small loops that we routinely put on cleats, and a pair of lines with snap shackles.

We use these for:

1) Spinnaker sheets and blocks mounted to the aft cleats

2) Barber-hauling the jib by putting a block on the windward amidships cleat and running a snap-shackle line from the jib clew through the windward block and back to the windward gunnel winch. This lets me bring the genoa inside the shrouds as if we had cabin-top tracks and gets us about 5 degrees better pointing ability. You do have to go on deck to release the barber-haul before tacking.

3) Pulling the boom to windward. Put a stout strop around the boom and before something like a pad-eye that will keep it from coming off the boom-end. clip the snap-shackle line to it, and run it to a block that is lateral on the gunnel. You may need to add a pad-eye for this block (our boat doesn't have a strong fitting in the right location). Take the line back to the windward winch and use the winch to pull the boom to windward.

A shackle on a loop with a snap-shackle line makes for a very versatile additional control sheet for just about anything you want. Get a pair of each so you can set them up port and starboard and leave them in place.

It is a bit of extra work to tack because you have to manually rig the sheets each time, so we tend to use these tactics on long tacks or when there's extra crew while racing.
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Old 15-09-2015, 22:23   #33
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

Another vote for the twin-sheet system. Infinitely adjustable, and, if you make the bitter ends off to the becketts you can use a continuous line, as the one taketh, the other giveth.
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Old 16-09-2015, 16:47   #34
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

I have had three sailboats. The first had a traveler on the bridge deck and was a joy to use. The second had a shorter traveler mid-boom, forward of the companionway. I could reach that traveler only because the boat was tiller steered, and I sat forward in the cockpit. The third, my current boat, has a short traveler on the transom. It is only slightly helpful, and I do not like its location which makes me turn to stern to use it.

I am somewhat familiar with the CD 28. It has a wonderful bridge deck that invites a good, full width traveler. I would install a traveler there. I do agree with others that a stout pad-eye in the center of the cockpit sole is an economical and effective option. It might also provide an anchor point for your harness lanyard.

You are correct that the CD28 is a blue water boat. I have always regretted not buying the one I looked at.

Fair winds.
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:21   #35
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

As I mentioned in post 14, often a Barber Hauler type arrangement can be more effective than a Traveler... especially a narrow one on the cabin top.
With a 3 or 4 part Barber Haul arrangement, and a cam cleat type of block, the line release is quick and easy from the cockpit and not in front of your dodger which is hard to deal with the mainsheet block or traveler.
I have set most my boats up like this whether I had a traveler or not.... never messed with the traveler. Also, a good 4 part Boom Vang with release shackles can do double duty as the Barber hauler... no extra investment or parts.
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Old 17-09-2015, 20:57   #36
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
As I mentioned in post 14, often a Barber Hauler type arrangement can be more effective than a Traveler... especially a narrow one on the cabin top.
With a 3 or 4 part Barber Haul arrangement, and a cam cleat type of block, the line release is quick and easy from the cockpit and not in front of your dodger which is hard to deal with the mainsheet block or traveler.
I have set most my boats up like this whether I had a traveler or not.... never messed with the traveler. Also, a good 4 part Boom Vang with release shackles can do double duty as the Barber hauler... no extra investment or parts.
Cheechako; Your righthand sketch is exactly what I do in conjunction with a traveller on a track. If I were building again I might save money, weight and space and eliminate the track. As I posted previously, I have a snap shackle on the bottom of the barber hauler (or handy billy, or purchase or whatever) and move it to the other side when tacking. Mine can also clip further forward on the boom and down to a stanchion base further forward on the side deck which is very effective reaching or running. It has a thin release line connected to the snapshackle to quickly free it if necessary. There is a clam cleat on the lower block to tension it. Rig it to the weather side in light winds to centralise the boom and twist the sail or to leeward to flatten the sail in stronger winds.

Anyone can benefit from doing this whether they have a track or not or wherever the track is positioned. Its also handy to pull the boom over and prevent it swinging at anchor or motoring.
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Old 18-09-2015, 06:08   #37
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller? BARBER HAULER DEFINITON

Hi,
A great lively thoughtful discussion, but please use the right terms. I know some may consider it anal, but if we're in a pinch and someone yells "release the barber-hauler" you would want the right line released-right? Not having to explain the line that....while the s____hits the fan.

A barber-hauler is a line, usually controlled from the cockpit, that adjusts the angle of a headsail sheet to keep it in line with the LP, in the same way that moving a car on a track would. The headsail sheet is led through a block (often a snatch block) whose tail is led to a stand-up or other block on the side deck and then aft.

What is being described here is more in the way of a boom preventer, which is either a single line, or built up tackle that works in combination with the sheet to accurately control boom position, no matter what the wind is doing-most often used on broad reaches and running.

Fair Winds...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
As I mentioned in post 14, often a Barber Hauler type arrangement can be more effective than a Traveler... especially a narrow one on the cabin top.
With a 3 or 4 part Barber Haul arrangement, and a cam cleat type of block, the line release is quick and easy from the cockpit and not in front of your dodger which is hard to deal with the mainsheet block or traveler.
I have set most my boats up like this whether I had a traveler or not.... never messed with the traveler. Also, a good 4 part Boom Vang with release shackles can do double duty as the Barber hauler... no extra investment or parts.
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Old 18-09-2015, 08:09   #38
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller? BARBER HAULER DEFINITON

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Originally Posted by mainesail View Post
Hi,
What is being described here is more in the way of a boom preventer, which is either a single line, or built up tackle that works in combination with the sheet to accurately control boom position, no matter what the wind is doing-most often used on broad reaches and running.
That is exactly my setup and it works beautifully. See post #11.
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Old 18-09-2015, 09:39   #39
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller? BARBER HAULER DEFINITON

Quote:
Originally Posted by mainesail View Post
Hi,
A great lively thoughtful discussion, but please use the right terms. I know some may consider it anal, but if we're in a pinch and someone yells "release the barber-hauler" you would want the right line released-right? Not having to explain the line that....while the s____hits the fan.

A barber-hauler is a line, usually controlled from the cockpit, that adjusts the angle of a headsail sheet to keep it in line with the LP, in the same way that moving a car on a track would. The headsail sheet is led through a block (often a snatch block) whose tail is led to a stand-up or other block on the side deck and then aft.

What is being described here is more in the way of a boom preventer, which is either a single line, or built up tackle that works in combination with the sheet to accurately control boom position, no matter what the wind is doing-most often used on broad reaches and running.

Fair Winds...
Yes, I think technically you are correct. The problem is by definition a Preventer is to keep the boom from swinging not necessarily for sail angle adjustment, where the barber hauler is used for sail adjustment... in or out by the way. So I call mine a Barber Hauler. Of course the very same apparatus is no longer a Barber Hauler when it gets shackled back in place under the Boom.... then it is a Boom Vang. So I suppose it should be defined by function! maybe it should be called the "auxiliary mainsheet" as I know no official name for the it.
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Old 18-09-2015, 23:01   #40
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller? BARBER HAULER DEFINITON

Quote:
Originally Posted by mainesail View Post
Hi,
A great lively thoughtful discussion, but please use the right terms. I know some may consider it anal, but if we're in a pinch and someone yells "release the barber-hauler" you would want the right line released-right? Not having to explain the line that....while the s____hits the fan.

A barber-hauler is a line, usually controlled from the cockpit, that adjusts the angle of a headsail sheet to keep it in line with the LP, in the same way that moving a car on a track would. The headsail sheet is led through a block (often a snatch block) whose tail is led to a stand-up or other block on the side deck and then aft.

What is being described here is more in the way of a boom preventer, which is either a single line, or built up tackle that works in combination with the sheet to accurately control boom position, no matter what the wind is doing-most often used on broad reaches and running.

Fair Winds...
Fair Winds, in my reply to Cheechako I knew exactly what he meant but I didn't want to appear pedantic by correcting him.

A purchase, or handy billy can be used on any point of sailing to help position the boom. I did mention that I move mine forward. or should that be "further for'ard" for running or reaching. Try it out sometime.
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Old 19-09-2015, 15:13   #41
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

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Again remember the OPs boat. Full keel Cape Dory 28. Rail mounted jib/Genoa sheets. He is never going to need the boom centered or above, he will never get the slot closed enough for that. Fin keel, modified full, etc. different story. Tight sheet angle Genoa, like inside the lifelines, different story.

Did a quick search on yacht world, pics hard to see, but appears all but one CD 28 had either pinned traveller or no traveller. As mentioned, pinned traveller might as well not be there.

If no vang and traveller already installed, leave it be. If vang has sufficient purchase, and traveller is aesthetically displeasing, get rid of it. If it is pinned you will never miss it.



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The jib is on a boom, so while it never comes past the shrouds, it can be sheeted in pretty tight.

Yep, mine is on pins and pretty hard to adjust when sailing. Won't scrap it though.

I've upgraded to the 6:1 and like it a lot better. I checked ahead of time and had a lot of extra line so had enough to not have to get new line.

I like this barber hauler idea but I'm not sure I completely understand it. If my mainsheet is back at the end of the boom can I still attach the barber hauler to the back?
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Old 19-09-2015, 15:20   #42
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

[QUOTE=northoceanbeach;1917850]The jib is on a boom, so while it never comes past the shrouds, it can be sheeted in pretty tight.

Yep, mine is on pins and pretty hard to adjust when sailing. Won't scrap it though.

I've upgraded to the 6:1 and like it a lot better. I checked ahead of time and had a lot of extra line so had enough to not have to get new line.

I like this barber hauler idea but I'm not sure I completely understand it. If my mainsheet is back at the end of the boom can I still attach the barber hauler to the back? [/QUOTE]

The "barber hauler" (as mentioned above...not correct terminology) is just a 4 part boom vang with cam cleat block and snap shackles on each end. For your 28 probably 3 part is fine or maybe even 2 part.
The best thing is to just get a flat nylon loop made, put it around the boom wherever you want it to attach a preventer or the hauler.
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Old 19-09-2015, 15:57   #43
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

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Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
The jib is on a boom, so while it never comes past the shrouds, it can be sheeted in pretty tight.

Yep, mine is on pins and pretty hard to adjust when sailing. Won't scrap it though.

I've upgraded to the 6:1 and like it a lot better. I checked ahead of time and had a lot of extra line so had enough to not have to get new line.

I like this barber hauler idea but I'm not sure I completely understand it. If my mainsheet is back at the end of the boom can I still attach the barber hauler to the back?
You don't need to attach the purchase ( previously referred to as a barber hauler) to the same place on the boom as the mainsheet is attached. It could though be more in the way of crew further forward on the boom.

Mine clips on just in front of the mainsheet which is vertical and 18" from the end of the boom. That way the obstruction caused by the main sheet is in the same place as the purchase. I also have an alternate attachment point on the boom forward of the dodger to a stauntchion base. That's very useful reaching and running.

As I see it you could attach to the boom close but in front of the main sheet and take it a angled a little forward to the side deck.

I know "barber hauler" normally applies to a head sail adjustment but this does a similar job on a mainsail. I like this new use of the term as language is constantly changing or we'd still be speaking Old English.

Wasn't it Briggs Cunningham who invented the Cunningham Eye that can either be in a main sail or head sail? (as long as it isn't a roller headsail)
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