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Old 15-09-2015, 11:11   #16
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

A Raven 26 was a New Zealand produced cruiser through the 1970s. They’re a good performing little cruiser and there are still several hundred sailing throughout the South Pacific. The original design was for no main sheet traveller and a large majority of owners have stuck to that. My boat has no traveller and I’ve not found it a detriment to performance.

Can’t you just unsheet the traveller on your Cape Dory and go sailing for a while? Experiment and observe the results. Perhaps leave it for 2 or 3 months like that, and if you’re happy then remove the traveller.
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Old 15-09-2015, 11:25   #17
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

We did not have a traveler but had three seriously stout padeyes at the middle and back of the (center) cockpit. We used two sets of blocks and lines for mainsheets and could easily tack or jib singlehanded by easing one side and sheeting in the other. But a traveller wold have been easier in some regards. Our multi-purchase blocks were Garhauer though. I really like their gear (and prices). Our current boat has a traditional traveler, ahead of the cockpit. But I have never bragged about really being a good sailor so would defer to those that are as to the sail handling merits of both approaches. The padeyes and blocks worked for us though in getting from point A to point B.
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Old 15-09-2015, 12:25   #18
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

Lots of boats sail very well without travelers-that said, traveler allows more precise control. So you need to decide what it's worth to you. There are used travelers around reasonably priced.

While a vang is useful, it certainly does not replace the virtues of a traveler.



Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
I was thinking about eliminating the traveller on my cape dory 28. How bad of an idea do you guys think this would be? Do you think I would regret it?

How important are they for mainsheet sail trim and unwind performance? Downwind? I was think of putting a big Schaefer, what are they called, like a u block, a really strong arch looking block in the center and attaching a beefy 6:1 mainsheet system to this.

Right now I think my mainsheet traveller looks like a really week point. The traveller track won't accept other cars and the car they have has a really dinky looking hook to accept the harken mainsheet cam block.
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Old 15-09-2015, 12:33   #19
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

A traveler with pins is as useless as tits on a bull. If you get a good traveler like a Garhauer or a Harken that you CAN adjust UNDER LOAD, then it will work. Our Garhauer has a 6:1 purchase. It's indispensable.

The traveler changes the angle of attack of the mainsail without changing the shape of the sail.

If you don't care, don't bother.

Heck, I know some folks with our same boat with the same great traveler who have never used it and keep it in the middle all the time.

Just means to me that they don't know squat about sail trim.

Your boat, your choice.
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Old 15-09-2015, 13:40   #20
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

Ok, I guess before I make that choice I wanted to know what I was doing. A padeye. That's the word I was looking for. I already upgraded to a 6:1 harken mainsheet. If you look at the picture, I think it's a weak spot because that car is wimpy looking. And the attachment piece that the car attaches to the harken block? It's really small for a boat that is supposed to be built to cross oceans. I wouldn't want that thing in 50 knots of wind.

I guess cape dory 28's didn't come with travelers. I don't think.. Maybe some did. This one looks original but the manual the boat shows that the original design was not unlike how my jib boom is setup. A padeye on on side or something, it's hard to see from the picture, and then a double block on the back of the boom, a double block on a padeye on the other side and a cleat in the middle. Not exactly a race ready feature. Who wants to cleat and unclear every time you want to sheet in the main?

I've already got the track, I suppose I could call gaurhauer and have them make me a new track with the bolts the same places. My neighbor showed me his. He loves it. Said they aren't very expensive either.
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Old 15-09-2015, 14:48   #21
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

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Originally Posted by kbudd View Post
I wouldn't do it. The traveler is just as important as the mainsheet for trim. Basically the sheet controls leech twist and the traveler controls the sheeting angle. If you get bad weather helm you drop the traveler to leeward and keep pointing upwind. Without a traveler, you ease the sheet, the top twists way off and you lose a lot of angle. Just my 2 cents.
I would second this. Again, I have a similar boat and the previous owner removed the traveler and track in favor of a different set-up, which has some advantages, but ability to point isn't one of them. So I am thinking of putting the track back on so I can center the boom when needed. The traveler does control twist in a small (but important) range but out from that a vang is needed. Additionally a preventer vang isn't a bad idea.
A little hard to tell from photo but track looks ok. Bolts are well backed with some backing blocks and big washers? The fitting on the car looks like the weak link although I'm always surprises me how strong those things are. Hey when are you coming south?
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Old 15-09-2015, 16:07   #22
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

When fitting out my full keeled, Passage 24/30 Cutter, I was unable to determine a suitable location or position in which to install a Traveler of any type therefore, I decided to go without one.
I carry a main-sail of 145 sq.ft. controlled by boom end sheeting using a Harken 4:1 main-sheet setup attached to a Four Hole cast s.s. Schaefer Pad Eye, centre mounted on the transom cap-rail.
My only problem so far is, the need to detach the upper fiddle block from the boom when setting up my full cockpit enclosure. The boom is secured to the Boom Gallows when not sailing.
Being a traditional cruising type vessel, we are not going anywhere in a hurry and so, I feel it is working out well.
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Old 15-09-2015, 16:16   #23
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

NOB, if you haven't noticed, you have a wide spectrum of advice here. My opinion? the folks who say you don't need a traveler don't care much about sail shape and sailing to windward. This description fits many cruising sailors... folks who say things like 'gentlemen never sail to windward", and who motor when their destination is upwind. If that also describes your style of cruising, then, no, the traveler is unneeded.

But if you do want to sail efficiently upwind, then the traveler will help and should be retained and/or improved.

Your boat, your style your choice.

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Old 15-09-2015, 16:21   #24
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

Traveler is indispensable.
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Old 15-09-2015, 17:17   #25
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

I would not eliminate a traveller if you have one. I have always had and used our traveller until our recent boat (Beneteau 48) which has an arch attachment for the main sheet, but no traveller. I was a little concerned when I bought the boat but not enough to change my purchasing decision. So far I am learning to use my boom vang to help for the lack of a traveller. The time I miss it the most is when we are really close hauled and I cannot move the boom far enough to windward. Bottom line for me, if you have one, don't remove it, learn how to use it to your advantage.
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Old 15-09-2015, 17:27   #26
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

If you wish to eliminate your main sheet track you can attach the existing main sheet to a U bolt in the centre of the cockpit floor. Then you fit another 2, U bolts; one on each side towards the gunwale in line with where the track was.
Make up another purchase similar to but lighter than the main sheet and attach it to your boom near the main sheet attachment point. Fit a good snap shackle to the bottom end of this second purchase and snap it on to one or other of the U bolts near either gunwale depending on which tack you are on.


It's a similar principal to having twin main sheets but actually much easier to work. The central main sheet does most of the work and the second one is used to pull the boom down to leeward. When you tack you simply release the snap shackle from one side and as the boom goes across controlled by the centre main sheet you snap the purchase to the opposite U bolt and adjust. The centre main sheet doesn't usually need adjusting for a tack.



You can also in light winds ease the centre main sheet a little and snap the second purchase to windward then use it to centralise the boom to induce twist into the sail (also freeing your kicker a bit.) Twist in the main is desirable in light winds due to the difference in apparent wind speed higher up the sail.


In some ways this system is better than a track as it eliminates the traveller sliding from side to side. It also eliminates the traveller adjusting lines. You can also make the "virtual track" base much wider than is usually possible with a "real" track.


At anchor you can pull the boom over to one side out of the way and stop it rocking around. If you want to you can put a snap shackle on the bottom of the central mainsheet and snap it out of the way too.


I personally have both a track and this second purchase mainly because I don't want to fill in all the holes that removing the track would involve. But without the track using a second purchase you can sail just as well and sometimes better than with a track.


If you do this you may find you need more rope in your mainsheet if the cockpit floor is lower than the track was. If you have a 6 / 1 mainsheet and your floor is a 18" lower than the track was you will need another 9' of mainsheet rope. You could though fit a single wire or spectra strop 18" long between the boom and the top mainsheet block. Doing that does have a degree of risk with the mainsheet block then being around head height.
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Old 15-09-2015, 17:40   #27
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmc View Post
A Raven 26 was a New Zealand produced cruiser through the 1970s. They’re a good performing little cruiser and there are still several hundred sailing throughout the South Pacific. The original design was for no main sheet traveller and a large majority of owners have stuck to that. My boat has no traveller and I’ve not found it a detriment to performance.

Can’t you just unsheet the traveller on your Cape Dory and go sailing for a while? Experiment and observe the results. Perhaps leave it for 2 or 3 months like that, and if you’re happy then remove the traveller.
A friend's Raven 26 I sometimes used to sail on had a track across where the main hatch would be if Ravens had one. It was built up on either side as there is a curve in the deck to allow headroom for entry to the cabin. I don't recall seeing any without a track but there must be if yours has no track. Being flush deck they have a lot of interior space for 26'.
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Old 15-09-2015, 18:55   #28
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

My boat had the very useless pinned (and curved) traveler that Catalina used in the early 80's. It was useless. P.O. had two permanently attached preventers that could be used for a bit of shape, but not really, and the blocks were all total crap.

So I ponied up the very reasonable amount of $$ for a "Catalina 30 upgrade kit" from Garhauer. Traveler, mainsheet blocks, jibsheet blocks, and a spring-loaded vang. Likely pretty much the same traveler that Stu has on his boat.

By FAR the best $ I've spent on the boat. Handling the main instantly went from being a total PITA, to being a joy. 90% of main adjustments are now with the very-easy to use traveler. I can set the twist with the sheet, and the AOA with the traveler. Downwind I can pop on a bit of vang and let the sheet out till the main just kisses the shrouds. Can adjust twist at all points of sail. Can get the boom dead center of the boat (or even a bit to windward) to help point. I would NEVER want to remove my traveler.
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Old 15-09-2015, 19:30   #29
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

Again remember the OPs boat. Full keel Cape Dory 28. Rail mounted jib/Genoa sheets. He is never going to need the boom centered or above, he will never get the slot closed enough for that. Fin keel, modified full, etc. different story. Tight sheet angle Genoa, like inside the lifelines, different story.

Did a quick search on yacht world, pics hard to see, but appears all but one CD 28 had either pinned traveller or no traveller. As mentioned, pinned traveller might as well not be there.

If no vang and traveller already installed, leave it be. If vang has sufficient purchase, and traveller is aesthetically displeasing, get rid of it. If it is pinned you will never miss it.


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Old 15-09-2015, 20:41   #30
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Re: Eliminate main sheet traveller?

You could eliminate the traveller and go to a dual-mainsheet system, with one mainsheet shackled to port and one to starboard. You generally just use the windward mainsheet, but to harden it up on the centerline you use both.

It also functions as a preventer to keep the boom in place during gybes. It doesn't complicate the companionway either, and no arch required. Just a pair of pad-eyes to the port and starboard of your mainsheet bail.
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