Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-10-2016, 04:58   #46
Registered User
 
Snowpetrel's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 2,608
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Often wondered why not just install a small turnbuckle in the lanyard itself (on the tail of the dead end) for small adjustments.

We used to use a kind of pry bar to work the slack through the deadeyes instead of twanging it on the square riggers I worked on with deadeyes and lanyards.

A very nice job 40 South. Good to hear you haven't had any slackening off issues given melbourne would have a 30 degree swing from the depths of winter to the height of summer. The Bergstrom & Ridder rig at least has the benefit of the reverse diagonals to lock the prebend in the mast and prevent pumping, but it still needs to be run pretty tight.
__________________

__________________
My Ramblings
Snowpetrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 16:18   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 72
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

I'm sure it's been answered before, but why can't you use ordinary dyneema?
__________________

__________________
packeteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 16:23   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Boat: Hunter 40 Legend
Posts: 155
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by packeteer View Post
I'm sure it's been answered before, but why can't you use ordinary dyneema?
Because ordinary dyneema stretches too much. Dynice Dux is pre-stretched and heat treated to stay that way.Use the correct material and there will be minimal complications.
__________________
Regards Craig
40 South is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 17:26   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: san diego
Boat: yorktown custom 40' cutter
Posts: 178
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 South View Post
Because ordinary dyneema stretches too much. Dynice Dux is pre-stretched and heat treated to stay that way.Use the correct material and there will be minimal complications.

true, and a problem with turnbuckles, but not with deadeyes...
__________________
robwilk37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 18:05   #50
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 2,681
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

A friend with a 44' cat is using ordinary dyneema 75 not heat set. He tells me that there is only a bit more stretch on initial setup. He also uses dead eyes as it pretty easy just to tension the leeward side with a cat.
__________________
Check out my blog: sailingcatamarans.blogspot.com
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 06:13   #51
Registered User
 
SailRedemption's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Orleans
Boat: Kaufman 47
Posts: 564
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF Bay Dude View Post
That's an awesome sight, er, your wife holding the entire standing rig I've got a 47ft cutter that needs new standing rigging. Would you be willing to disclose the price you paid? I figure my 316 replacement is going to run around $5k-$6k. If not, that's cool too. Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piratelife View Post
It's inspiring to see that this can be done on vessels of my size. Thank you for all the input, from what Ive researched Colligo Dux is heat set sk75 and has slightly more creep than heat set sk78 Dyneema. I have heard of Colligo and will definitely call them soon for some more questions, however, from what I understand, heat set sk78 Dyneema would possibly allow for slightly smaller diameter lines for my vessel which is only intriguing because the price of line is higher for larger diameters. From what I can find though, the only manufacturer I know of is New England ropes, which I believe only come as large as 9 or 11mm (have to check on that again)
I'm interested to know how your final set up process goes. From what I understand there is an initial stage that requires a lot of tuning (maybe the first month). This makes sense, I think of it like a guitar with new strings, first you have to tune it frequently, and then the strings setlle in and tuning stays pretty consistent. This is definitely another advantage of Dyneema. When it starts losing tune more frequently it's time to change the strings again.
If the creep seems manageable I would definitely consider using Colligo dux. I'm also curious what your final cost was for the swap? If you care to share. I'll likely be changing mine in stages.
Hey guys sorry for the delay, I'll try to get back to your post/questions this week. Have been busy all week working on boat(rigging, furlers, teak decks, interior) so haven't really had any time to slow down and get to this.

Ronnie
__________________
SailRedemption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 01:06   #52
Registered User
 
SF Bay Dude's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Skookum 47
Posts: 155
Images: 39
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Did you get everything rigged up? Hope it went well!
__________________
SF Bay Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2016, 13:15   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Kauai
Boat: Columbia 50'
Posts: 22
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
A friend with a 44' cat is using ordinary dyneema 75 not heat set. He tells me that there is only a bit more stretch on initial setup. He also uses dead eyes as it pretty easy just to tension the leeward side with a cat.
Good to hear! It's hard to decide what to go with, but I still have a while before I'll be replacing my rigging (mainly due to finances). Although i'd like to buy heat set dyneema, its good to know I would get by just fine with non-heat set dyneema 75. The cost is not that much difference per foot, but when it comes to my rig, it would add up fast!

I will not likely start my dyneema rigging conversion for a few months, but will definitely post the progress as it begins. Thanks for all the help and I look forward to seeing/hearing more from all you who have made the conversion.
__________________
Piratelife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2016, 00:22   #54
Registered User
 
CareKnot's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston/Galveston metroplex
Boat: 1979 Endeavor 32
Posts: 194
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Hi Piratelife (Ciro) and Aloha to you too.

I have not made a synthetics standing rigging conversion, so forgive me for butting in. I have been researching it though still in the preliminary stages. It's become a topic of great interest to me. So thanks to you for starting the thread and thanks also to those that have contributed.

Being very budget minded but enthralled with the concept, I have chosen the untreated SK78 as a primary candidate. It is only marginally more expensive than the SK75 and exhibits greatly decreased creep and increasing longevity. Transitioning to SK99 or any of the various treated synthetics greatly increases the cost for marginal benefits to the cruising sailor, imo. Were I racing and had sponsors, different story...

I am currently shopping for the best priced source for SK78 and various other line selections, so any suggestions from the gallery would be greatly appreciated.

The link posted below gives an intriguing example at the end of the technical bulletin, comparing SK75 and SK78 on the subject of 'creep'. The application in the example is that of a mainsail halyard.

Samson Rope Company, for the SK75, gives a creep factor of ~.01%/mo @20% of max load rating. It rates the life of the product (excepting abrasion, etc.) of only about 8 yrs. However, the creep of the SK78 is ~.033% which leads to a projected lifespan of 24 yrs or longer. So this product seems more in line (yeah, I said that) with my expectations.

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/...AR2012_WEB.pdf

The Rigging Doctor is a blog-site you may enjoy. It is the instructions of a Dentist/professional rigger that has made the transition to synthetic rigging first on his own 1968 Morgan 45 project boat, then on a number of other sailboats. The blog gives a vast library in-depth, how-to articles with illustrations. His choice for synthetic shrouds and stays is Heat Treated SK78. The following article details why:

The Best Material for Synthetic Standing Rigging — Rigging Doctor
__________________
Kindest Regards,
Phillip
CareKnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2016, 10:20   #55
Registered User
 
CareKnot's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston/Galveston metroplex
Boat: 1979 Endeavor 32
Posts: 194
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Again, I'm jumping in uninvited. But I have some questions and I'm hoping the membership might cut me a little slack.

Looking at Alibaba, I located one of many suppliers of 12 strand 4mm~120mm Dyneema SK78 coated round braid. This product was quoted @ US $0.05 - $0.20 per meter with a 500 meter minimum order.

To put this in perspective, 120 mm = 4.72441 (~ 4 11/16) inches diameter. At $0.20 per meter that comes to $100 for 500 meters (1640.42 feet); that would be around $0.16 per foot. Needless to say, ultimately price is a function of material diameter, size of order, customization, shipping costs and import fees. So I expect the final price to be higher, but I don't know how much higher to estimate. A little input would be nice.

The application cited for this product was automotive/off-road power winches. There was no nautical application categories found on this site. I need to understand how well this product might translate to rigging and to learn more about shipping and import expenses.

The supplier indicated that they would cut custom lengths, make eyelet splices, etc. The inference is that custom products can be made to spec very inexpensively. My feeling is that ordering several sets of standing rigging, with all the shrouds, stays, etc., custom cut and machine spliced, may be the better alternative. But I don't know. Putting the mast, spars and occupants of a yacht; and even the yacht at risk over saving a few pennies is not my intention.

However, this might also be an opportunity for any number of owners of similar production yachts with like sail plans to form 'buyers clubs'. At reduced prices, each owner might want a backup set stowed in a bag. Just thinking out loud here.

Anyone here have any experience with purchases of this nature? I would really like some perspective on this.

FROM THE SITE: ************

Quick Details


Place of Origin: Shanghai, China (Mainland)
Brand Name: SKR
Model Number: SKR Classic-DYNEEMA
Power Source: Electric
Application: ATV/UTV
Capacity: 4000-48000lbs
Material: UHMWPE Dyneema 75 ,78
Construction: 12X1 Strand or 8X2 double braided
Color: Orange or customized
Length: customized
Diameter: customized
Surface: Lago resin
Advantage: High strength and light weight
Resistant: UV and acidity and alkalinity
Packaging & Delivery

Packaging Details: our rope according to your requirement can make any length and dia. or pack the rope as roll, hank, coil, reel, woven bag and so on. All the arrangements to listen to you

Delivery Detail: about 10-30 days after order
__________________
Kindest Regards,
Phillip
CareKnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2016, 12:42   #56
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,232
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

I wouldn't trust them. There is a massive difference between sk75 and 78 and the add sheet doesn't indicate they know what that difference is. Secondly rope is typically sold at n bulk by the spool (600') or half spool (300') even in metric countries. So their bulk quantity offers are weird. Again either they don't know what they have, or are using a secondary supplier. Neither encourages me very much.

Right now I would take a serious look at Alpha Ropes. They are primarily an European supplier, but there are a couple of US retailers. Buying enough for a rig is generally going to get you into at least the half spool (300') range.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2016, 15:39   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: san diego
Boat: yorktown custom 40' cutter
Posts: 178
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

careknot... for that price id buy a spool and spring for destructive testing of a sample. true, they may not know what they have, but that can work both ways. id appreciate a link to that supplier if you dont mind
__________________
robwilk37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2016, 16:17   #58
Registered User
 
CareKnot's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston/Galveston metroplex
Boat: 1979 Endeavor 32
Posts: 194
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Thanks for the reply Greg,

I think the confusion is my fault. They aren't wholesalers. They are manufacturers. They seem to know the difference between SK75 and SK78. I just grabbed some text to indicate their general focus.

They also supply 600' spools. But like the text said, they supply custom color, diameter and length within a range of products. I think that particular supplier said they could supply up to 100,000 meters per week. I'll post a link below. Check it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I wouldn't trust them. There is a massive difference between sk75 and 78 and the add sheet doesn't indicate they know what that difference is. Secondly rope is typically sold at n bulk by the spool (600') or half spool (300') even in metric countries. So their bulk quantity offers are weird. Again either they don't know what they have, or are using a secondary supplier. Neither encourages me very much.

Right now I would take a serious look at Alpha Ropes. They are primarily an European supplier, but there are a couple of US retailers. Buying enough for a rig is generally going to get you into at least the half spool (300') range.
__________________
Kindest Regards,
Phillip
CareKnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2016, 16:24   #59
Registered User
 
CareKnot's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston/Galveston metroplex
Boat: 1979 Endeavor 32
Posts: 194
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

Hi Rob,

They, along with several others are listed on this page. https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/dyneema-sk78-rope.html Look for "ShangHai Star King Manufacture Co, Ltd" about the middle of page. But this is just one of many...
Quote:
Originally Posted by robwilk37 View Post
careknot... for that price id buy a spool and spring for destructive testing of a sample. true, they may not know what they have, but that can work both ways. id appreciate a link to that supplier if you dont mind
__________________
Kindest Regards,
Phillip
CareKnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2016, 16:50   #60
Registered User
 
CareKnot's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston/Galveston metroplex
Boat: 1979 Endeavor 32
Posts: 194
Re: Dyneema Standing Rigging a 50' Sloop, Questions for those who have made the swap

RED ALERT: Misread pricing. $0.5 not $0.05...

Still, that's $250 for 500 meters of 4 mm rated at 2 tons. So probably somewhere around $600-800 for 13 mm.

What is that @ 1640 ft? Two sets of stays and shrouds for a 50 foot cutter rig sloop with some left over?
__________________

__________________
Kindest Regards,
Phillip
CareKnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dyneema, rigging, sloop

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How long does Dyneema standing rigging last? david samuelson Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 26-10-2013 05:57
De Masting creates better standing rigging with "New larger Fractional rig" Questions RiverPirate Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 8 16-09-2012 00:35
Rigging instructions for the standing rigging of the 321 Oceanis anadale1 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 0 20-06-2011 16:52
Re: Rigging, Compression Fittings for Standing Rigging Maineiac_sailor Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 26-01-2011 08:30
crazy idea for those with deep pockets, spectra (dyneema) anchor line schoonerdog Multihull Sailboats 22 27-10-2008 02:46


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.