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Old 20-09-2017, 01:15   #1
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Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

When sailing to Majuro from Hawaii one of my stainless wire shrouds blew apart, so i replaced it with some deema line i had on board. Thats been 1 year ago and it has never lostened or stretched.

Now i am considering replacing everyhing with deema line. Just wondering who has done this and what sucess they have had.

Im thinking it will lighten some considerable weight aloft but add some windage?

Sure is easier to work with and replace when needed.
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Old 20-09-2017, 01:55   #2
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Re: Deema instead of stainless for stays and shrowds

Do a few searches on synthetic rigging, & dux. Those 2 phrases will glean you a lot of threads. And you can also spend some time on the Colligo Marine website. They rerig boats with dyneema full time, & have lots of info on it on their website.
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Old 20-09-2017, 02:26   #3
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Re: Deema instead of stainless for stays and shrowds

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Do a few searches on synthetic rigging, & dux. Those 2 phrases will glean you a lot of threads. And you can also spend some time on the Colligo Marine website. They rerig boats with dyneema full time, & have lots of info on it on their website.
Thanks bro
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Old 20-09-2017, 03:05   #4
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Re: Deema instead of stainless for stays and shrowds

You're welcome. Also, the owner of Colligo Marine, John Franta is a member here. Maybe by the handle J.Franta or something similar. He's real easy to talk to, so if you're seriously thinking about synthetic rigging, give him a call. I threw a lot of quite technical questions at him, & he never missed a beat, answering them almost 100%. And I've been around more than my share of rigging, or so I'm told.
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Old 20-09-2017, 06:55   #5
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Re: Deema instead of stainless for stays and shrowds

Hi Unciv, if you were re rigging your own boat would you gobthe dyneema way?
I re rigged prior to this trip with ss. I then met a rigger during the trip, if i met him earlier i may have gone the dyneema way....intetested in your thoughts.
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Old 20-09-2017, 09:15   #6
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

I restored a 1984 Cape Dory 25D a few years ago and also modernized the look so we went with all Dyneema for standing rigging. No issues and it's certainly strong enough. I didn't find it to be any cheaper at the time in fact it was more but prices have probably come down. I've since sold the boat and the same owner is using it. So it's been at least 5 years.
I do think you have to watch the UVing of the line.
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Old 20-09-2017, 09:42   #7
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

PBO, to my memory, has three phases of stretching
First one, forces you to continuous trimming at the beginning
Then, stretching settles down for a few years (?)
later on, stage 3, it ACCELERATES AGAIN, and then you have to two-day.

I think dyneema is, to an extent, a sort of (??)

on a large boat, resilience of SS is worth its weight...and splicing on exotic fibers is, for large size (5/8" or more), quite problematic
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Old 20-09-2017, 11:51   #8
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

I re-rigged my boat with Colligo Dux (heat stretched dyneema) two years ago. Very happy with it. No stretch. I race a lot and I like the rig tight. I tune it up in the spring and don't touch it again. Quotes for new rod rigging were about the same, but now that I have all the Colligo fittings, replacing a shroud will be much cheaper as I need only pay for the new line and splicing. I can also keep spare shrouds aboard if I choose, as they weigh little and don't take much space. Try that with rods or bar.
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Old 20-09-2017, 14:49   #9
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

YachtBroker...FWIW, we replaced our cable halyards with Dyneema alittle over 6 years ago. I know halyards are not the same as standing rigging, and we do take our sails down each year for 6 months so that exposes a different section to the sun, but we've been in the tropics and s. Medd the whole time and so far we've not noticed any change nor degradation in the dyneema yet.
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Old 20-09-2017, 16:08   #10
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

It's been very popular in the multihull world - and quite successful- for some time now. I'll be switching over when I need new rigging.

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Old 20-09-2017, 16:44   #11
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

How does Dyneema do with fire, or hot things like heat guns?
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Old 20-09-2017, 17:00   #12
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

We rerigged our cat's shrouds with dux. Would never do the headstay or diamonds though. Too critical. We had to tighten probably four times in the first year of use consisting of year round liveaboard cruising. UV should not be a problem because from strength perspective they are massively overspec'd to account for stretch and when outer fibers weaken there is plenty of residual strength. Infact, we replaced 12 year old dyneema runners that were still fine.
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Old 20-09-2017, 17:38   #13
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

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We rerigged our cat's shrouds with dux. Would never do the headstay or diamonds though. Too critical.
Considering how much less reliable stainless is compared to dux, I guess you must mean you use galvanized for the headstay?

I can understand diamond stays staying metal because of temperature changes, the wire and mast expand the same amount. My rigging is always looser when I sail to higher latitudes, then gets tight again in tropical places. Doesn't matter that much since it doesn't weaken from shock loading.

Despite what numerous people had told me prior, I have my headstay in dyneema now for 8 years and use bronze hanks. There is virtually no wear on the stay, and it works fine. There is nothing wrong with hanks on dyneema. I guess all the riggers didn't actually try it, they just like to make assumptions about something they know nothing about.
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Old 20-09-2017, 18:00   #14
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

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I have my headstay in dyneema now for 8 years and use bronze hanks. There is virtually no wear on the stay, and it works fine. There is nothing wrong with hanks on dyneema. I guess all the riggers didn't actually try it, they just like to make assumptions about something they know nothing about.
You just answered my next question. Good to know hanks do not wear on the Dyneema. I do know that the stainless wears out my hanks farlly quickly depending on how hard i am using them. Bronze sliding on metal is never a good thing except that the bronze is the sacrificial lamb.
With Dyneema, i forsee my hanks lasting a lifetime with little or no friction, also must be easier to haul the sails up the stay for the same reason.
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Old 20-09-2017, 18:07   #15
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Re: Dyneema instead of stainless for stays and shrouds

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There is nothing wrong with hanks on dyneema. I guess all the riggers didn't actually try it, they just like to make assumptions about something they know nothing about.
mmmm . . . . actually there is a decent amount of rigging/rigger experience with dyneema stays and hanks. A reasonable number of dyneema innerstays with storm jibs set on hanks plus somewhat fewer headstays (some recent volvo style and similar boats) and there has in fact been chafe experienced.

There are a whole bunch of options regarding hanks. The bronze pistons are 'old school' - the key regarding chafe is #1 that they have not previously been used on wire (as that will groove them) and #2 they have no interior 'mold flashing' (small edge). If they meet those two factors they will not aggressively chafe but they can fuzz up the dyneema surface if there is a lot of movement for some reason (flogging or loose stay or halyard). In my opinion their key weaknesses are rather they are two handed operation, and they need to be cleaned and lubricated or they get quite stiff to operate.

An alternative which is one-handed operation and never gets stiff are the wichard clip hanks. They have about the same contact/wear on dyneema as the piston style. The weakness of this style is they do not 'lock' and if you have two stays very very close together these can accidentally clip to the other stay, or pick up a sheet.

There are high end composite 'carrabiner' style hanks made for the racing market which are one handed, and locking, and 'softer/smother/slipperier' than the above two options . . . but they are expensive.

Finally, there are several styles of excellent dyneema hanks. They do not even fuzz up the stay surface. Many of them are two-handed, but there are a few designs which are 'mostly' one-hand operation. They lock. And they are generally (relatively) inexpensive.

A note: properly sized (for stretch) dyneema headstay is significantly bigger in diameter than a wire, so the hanks usually need to be bigger than the wire hanks.

My personal biggest issue with dyneema stays (side or head) is that we several times were in situations where our stays were in contact with stuff that would have cut or melted dyneema. Just as one example - in iceland we were side tied to a fishing trawler who had out galvanized wire mooring lines - there was a decent cross wind blowing us onto the trawler, and the harbor master told us we had to leave now (to let them out). I did the best job I could springing the boat out, but our shroud ran along one of those wires for a decent distance until we got up enough speed to gain steering - it would definitely have severely damaged a dyneema stay - did nothing to the stainless dyform wire. Depends on what sort of sailing you are doing whether you would worry about this sort of situation or not.
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