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Old 13-07-2012, 15:07   #16
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

Unlikely you will be happy with the G3 on a furler unless it is the Rollgen (sp?) type of furler. I don't think the sail is flat enough for a continuous furler, and I don't think it comes with a luff rope for doing so. I also disagree that this sail is usable much above 80* apparent or so.

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Old 19-07-2012, 15:21   #17
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

Don't get caught up with nomenclature is my advice.

Speak with your sailmaker and spell out what you're looking for. Every sail we do is custom and if it's for a cruising boat where we don't have to comply with any specific rules, the sail can be extremely well optimized for what you want. Make sure you're either speaking directly with the person who will be designing the sail or that the person you're dealing with has a direct line of communication with the designer. With some of the larger companies, there may be many different designers employed and not much opportunity for interaction.

We supply detailed drawings of our sails before they go into production so the customer not only has an idea of what it will look like, but so we can insure we've done the best possible job of meeting their requirements.

There are different types of continuous furlers and most a-sails can be accomodated. You're not limited to a specific brand.
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Old 19-07-2012, 15:57   #18
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Thanks for the input.

But I'm not really looking for a reacher/runner, I'm really looking something that be more of close reacher. And I want to make it easy for my wife and I to handle it. Sails are too complex!
Don
I think this is what you are looking for.

Code Zero - UK-Halsey Sailmakers

This can also be furled like a regular roller furling
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Old 19-07-2012, 16:25   #19
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by brankin View Post
Don
I think this is what you are looking for.

Code Zero - UK-Halsey Sailmakers

This can also be furled like a regular roller furling
From my reading, because I'm not really interested in learning about racing sails, the thing that kind of turns me off to the Code 0 is all the talk about how it was designed to get around a rule. I don't have any rules to get around and want a sail designed to do what I'm looking for, period.

Doyle is sending me a material sample. Not that I think that is going to help me any. But they told me this in an email:

"The ZL08 is a fabric that is specifically designed to be used on sails like code zeros or what we call our UPS which is a cruising version of the code 0.

The fabric is a light polyester taffeta with aramid running in the warp direction and also on a 60°axis.

It is stabilized using a Mylar film as the last layer."

Meanwhile it's been a week since I sent a request to North Sail and they haven't even bothered to follow-up.

I've looked at some other sail lofts websites that suppose to be cruiser based designs, and they don't list any design similar to the the UPS or what I'm interested in. I'm kind of cautious to let some loft take my money to be the test boat.
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Old 19-07-2012, 19:31   #20
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

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Originally Posted by brankin View Post
Don
I think this is what you are looking for.

Code Zero - UK-Halsey Sailmakers

This can also be furled like a regular roller furling
You cannot furl a code zero "like a regular roller furling" as they are built with a free flying luff, with or without an anti-torsion rope for use with a foil-less furler. Now you could build a similar sail with luff tape for use with a furler but that's not the standard. For a Catana catamaran we built a gennaker with luff tape because it was set up for use with a furler. That changes the nature and performance of the sail. That was a fun project as we used some material left over from the VOR 70 Ericcson.
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Old 19-07-2012, 19:41   #21
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
From my reading, because I'm not really interested in learning about racing sails, the thing that kind of turns me off to the Code 0 is all the talk about how it was designed to get around a rule. I don't have any rules to get around and want a sail designed to do what I'm looking for, period.

Doyle is sending me a material sample. Not that I think that is going to help me any. But they told me this in an email:

"The ZL08 is a fabric that is specifically designed to be used on sails like code zeros or what we call our UPS which is a cruising version of the code 0.

The fabric is a light polyester taffeta with aramid running in the warp direction and also on a 60°axis.

It is stabilized using a Mylar film as the last layer."

Meanwhile it's been a week since I sent a request to North Sail and they haven't even bothered to follow-up.

I've looked at some other sail lofts websites that suppose to be cruiser based designs, and they don't list any design similar to the the UPS or what I'm interested in. I'm kind of cautious to let some loft take my money to be the test boat.
Don,

You don't give a lot of detail about what you're looking for, but you may not need the cloth you've described above. We set up a similar Hunter (older 405) in Southern Cal for a customer taking the boat home to Australia. We did a CLASS (cruisers light air sail solution) which is somewhat similar to a code zero but is not compliant with the girth restrictions and designed specifically to be an easy to use light air cruising sail. Rather than an expensive laminate, we used a 2.5 oz nylon in a full radial design. The idea behind the CLASS is that you use it up to the point where your regular headsail will give you close to hull speed. The laminates like ZL08 are excellent materials but could be overkill for your application. The Hunter is a light relatively easily driven boat. You're not racing and with a foil-less furler, it's a cinch to roll up the sail and use your regular genoa once the wind picks up.

The customer is in French Polynesia right now and the sail has been working out well. Another customer with a Hunter in Southern Cal using his boat for local cruising bought a CLASS with a Facnor and reported 5-6 knots of boat speed in under 10 knots of true during his trips to and from Catalina Island.
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Old 20-07-2012, 04:55   #22
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

I feel I have provided what I'm looking for, but in case:

I'm looking for a light wind cruising head sail that can be used more to windward than my asymmetrical. If it also can be used broad reaching that would be great!

I want the sail easy to use and am interested in the sail to be usable with a furler.

Boats stock measurements - I=47.75', J=16.17'

If you have something send me a quote etc - donlucas515 at gmail.com
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Old 20-07-2012, 06:03   #23
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by islandplanet View Post
We did a CLASS (cruisers light air sail solution) which is somewhat similar to a code zero but is not compliant with the girth restrictions and designed specifically to be an easy to use light air cruising sail. Rather than an expensive laminate, we used a 2.5 oz nylon in a full radial design. The idea behind the CLASS is that you use it up to the point where your regular headsail will give you close to hull speed.
You are exactly describing our Doyle UPS, and also the way we use it. It has a torsion rope and furls on a Facnor continuous line furler.

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Old 20-07-2012, 07:05   #24
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

I am waiting on a new Doyle UPS which is different to the one normally offered by them. They were OK with producing a sail to my specs. The sail has no laminate but is being made from Challenge Fibermax. The cloth weight is a mix of 3.4 oz and 2.2 oz.

For your boat, which is fairly light, I would suggest 2.2 oz and 1.5 oz which is basically 2.2 at the back and 1.5 at the front. The stuff is very durable but will stretch more than a laminate so you need to be aware of that. This is Fibermax.

http://www.challengesailcloth.com/nylon/fibermax.pdf

It seems like what you want.
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Old 20-07-2012, 10:30   #25
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
I am waiting on a new Doyle UPS which is different to the one normally offered by them. They were OK with producing a sail to my specs. The sail has no laminate but is being made from Challenge Fibermax. The cloth weight is a mix of 3.4 oz and 2.2 oz.

For your boat, which is fairly light, I would suggest 2.2 oz and 1.5 oz which is basically 2.2 at the back and 1.5 at the front. The stuff is very durable but will stretch more than a laminate so you need to be aware of that. This is Fibermax.

http://www.challengesailcloth.com/nylon/fibermax.pdf

It seems like what you want.
Savoir,

Just curious. Was it your idea to mix the cloth weights?
Challenge Fibermax is a good product.

The rationale for going heavier on the cloth usually relates to a desire for carrying the sail fairly close to the wind and in a higher wind range. It's important that anyone with that desire insure that the tack fitting is well secured. Some boats have sustained some damage when bow rollers platforms lifted due to the upward load placed on them by a code zero type sail set from a foil-less furler.

Likewise, some sprits will require a bobstay.
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Old 20-07-2012, 10:43   #26
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

The anchor point for mine will be the jib tack anchor point so it will have plenty of strength. The two cloths was my idea as was the choice of cloth. We did differ on the amount. I wanted aft 1/3 and the sailmaker wants aft 1/2 to be heavier. He hasn't sorted the graphics yet so that might change.
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Old 20-07-2012, 10:44   #27
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I feel I have provided what I'm looking for, but in case:

I'm looking for a light wind cruising head sail that can be used more to windward than my asymmetrical. If it also can be used broad reaching that would be great!

I want the sail easy to use and am interested in the sail to be usable with a furler.

Boats stock measurements - I=47.75', J=16.17'

If you have something send me a quote etc - donlucas515 at gmail.com
I will send you some info by email later today or over the weekend. Thanks for your interest Don.
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Old 20-07-2012, 10:50   #28
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
The anchor point for mine will be the jib tack anchor point so it will have plenty of strength. The two cloths was my idea as was the choice of cloth. We did differ on the amount. I wanted aft 1/3 and the sailmaker wants aft 1/2 to be heavier. He hasn't sorted the graphics yet so that might change.
I would suggest having the sail designer make the decision on the cloth blend. There are pros and cons to mixing cloth weights in a nylon sail. Without looking at the proposed design and application, I can't offer a well reasoned opinion. I have a lot of faith in our designer and in the years we've worked together, I've never regretted following his recommendations.
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Old 25-07-2012, 05:14   #29
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

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Originally Posted by islandplanet View Post
I will send you some info by email later today or over the weekend. Thanks for your interest Don.

Are you going to be sending?
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Old 25-07-2012, 13:15   #30
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Re: Doyle UPS sail

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Are you going to be sending?
Woops. Sorry about that. These forum threads aren't integrated into my task management and it escaped me. I'll get that out asap.
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