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Old 21-12-2009, 20:56   #16
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For 2 people on that boat I definitely second the asym. Loads on a 42 can be quite high and with the comlpexity of the pole and so forth 2 people can be quickly overwhelmed.

I've been crewing on a Bene First and in race trim we need 8 people to fly the symetrical efficiently.

Before you do this, a couple of questions.

1 - Is you concern "racing" and winning? If so it is likely a handicap race and see if you can get a higher handicap for white sails only. That would keep you competitive make your life easier. Get a whisker pole for the genny for downwind.

2 - Is your concern just showing up last at the nightly moorings? If so you probably want to proceed with the asym. The bright news is that once you get it and start using it, you will probably use it all the time.

Finally - I normally don't cross post from other forums but Giuletta is a friend of ours and this thread has some great instructional videos.

Scroll down to the bottom to see setting, dousing, inside and outside gybing of the asym spinnaker.

Giuletta's vids
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Old 21-12-2009, 21:37   #17
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Don't waste your money on the chute unless you have more than 2 on board. In the Med you will spend most of your time motoring or overpowered, and the Bene will keep up with the crowd just fine with white sails.
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Old 22-12-2009, 13:46   #18
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Thanks for all the valuable input guys, it seems the opinions are as varied as sailing is itself I'm not interested in racing, but as Ex-Calif shrewdly observes, I don't want to be last into the moorings- it's a pride thing. Having been throught the posts, it seems the twin headsail plan could be the winner- Pete7- Ive not seen the config you suggest- Am I right in assuming it needs a spererate, inner forestay?
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Old 23-12-2009, 03:15   #19
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I'd have the same reservations, even with a cat.
I've keep looking at the para-sail which seems to be right for the cruiser wanting to make distance in mild winds.
Chances are you'll never take it out of the bag until you've sat in a high for half a day.
but in a rally, well, get it up, keep the pace up, you can go swimming/fishing/cooking/drinking in the nearest bar to the finish.
i also think this is the way to go if you can afford them
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Old 23-12-2009, 03:43   #20
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Cruising chutes have come a long way, and are far easier to use than a conventional symmetrical spinnaker.

You might take a look at a furling system for a chute - we have one from Crusader Sails in the UK called a Magic Furl, and it's basically a modified gennaker system, with a furling drum and endless line at the base, a kevlar luff rope and a swivel at the top.

The sail furls around the luff rope and is stowed in a big coil in its bag taking up little room. It's hoisted on the spinnaker halyard and when taut the endless line is pulled in one direction and the sheet hauled home as the sail unfurls. To furl it, the endless line is simply pulled in the other direction while the sheet is checked away, preferably with the sail blanketed by the main. A light line is attached at the mid point of the luff to the luff rope, and this furls first, so that an even and tight furl is achieved.

It's far easier than a snuffer - I've had several of varying efficiencies, including a really good Hood one, and they are far more tricky to use in comparison. So far the furler has been foolproof, although there are little tricks that help - the luff rope must be tight for the swivel to work well, we find, but that's it.

The sail is slightly smaller than an asymmetric chute, and is set from a bowsprit so it's in clear air. One great thing with this set-up is that in flukey winds or with changes of course you can leave the whole set-up hoisted, furled, and re-set it whenever you can.
If a job is easy, you'll do it, and we now use the sail at every opportunity.

Incidentally, we looked at the Parasail/Parasailor and whilst the concept looked good, the price was astonishing (at least here in Europe), and seemed out of all proportion to the concept.
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Old 27-12-2009, 04:39   #21
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Cruising chutes A light line is attached at the mid point of the luff to the luff rope, and this furls first, so that an even and tight furl is achieved.


Incidentally, we looked at the Parasail/Parasailor and whilst the concept looked good, the price was astonishing (at least here in Europe), and seemed out of all proportion to the concept.
Hi Sharkman , I have a similar endless furler ,not magic furl , and have yet to get it to work properly . I had to supply my own luff rope but have yet to find a rope sticky enough to grab the sail . I was intrigued by this line you mention , have you any pics of it attached / working please ? gramos
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Old 27-12-2009, 06:21   #22
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Cruising chute furling line

Hi

The line you mention is just light Dacron or Dyneema (I think - it's all wrapped up at the moment). It is seized to the Kevlar luff rope at around the midpoint, and is attached to the luff of the sail with a fairly solid reinforcing patch to spread the load.

The idea is that as the first twenty or so turns are taken in the light line furls first, then starts to pull in the luff of the sail, furling the centre in advance of the head and tack. With the mid-section of the sail furling in this way the furl is tight and even. We've found it works really well, but we try to blanket the sail a little (to depower it) whilst still keeping it drawing in order to (a) achieve a good furl, but (b) avoid flogging which could put a good deal of stress on the luff of the sail as the line is wound in. One other point if you fit it yourself would be to make sure that the line has plenty of slack in it, so that when the tack line is eased the furling line is not pulling on the luff when the sail is full.

It may be that we are being overcautious though, as it all seems pretty robust, so far. And it's so simple that it encourages us to use it at every opportunity, even though we're nearly always two-handed.

Crusader claim you can retrofit an existing sail to their system, but recommend that the reinforcing patch be devised and attached by a professional sailmaker.

There are a number of these systems on the market - some of them opt for a luff furling line, others not. We looked at both and concluded that the furling line looked like a good idea, and struggled a little to work out how the "non line" versions would furl the sail effectively. Not having tried one we really can't comment, but it sounds from your experience that this is indeed an issue. Hope you work it out OK.
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Old 27-12-2009, 07:39   #23
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Kite with snuffer or furler, asym or symmetric...furling gennaker...no matter what you need a pole to go downwind.

I've seen it a thousand times: people buy lots of "cruising" spinnakers and big jibs (gennikers, whatever) from their sailmaker, hoping to go downwind without a pole, only to discover that they have to reach back and forth and gybe downwind. Without a pole the mainsail will blanket whatever you have up.

WHATEVER sail you get, get a good pole with the proper controls (lift, foreguy, etc.). They are NOT hard to use once you figure it out, and can be used with your spin as well as smaller jibs.

It will save you a lot of headaches in the long run. Especially on boats that tend to have a lot of weather helm on waves and like to round up (ahem...such as many Beneteaus). Having some sail area on the windward side is critical to balancing the helm and making it easier to steer.

The only boats that can get away without a pole (and use a bowsprit instead) are really lightweight fast ones that can bend the apparent wind forward with their speed.

Despite all the hype about "cruising spinnakers", you're usually better off with a symmetrical regular kite for going downwind. They are easier to douse because the clews are at the same height and have less chance to go in the water.

Now, for reaching it's a different case and you could very well use an asym or furling gennaker without a pole.
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Old 28-12-2009, 06:30   #24
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Having been throught the posts, it seems the twin headsail plan could be the winner- Pete7- Ive not seen the config you suggest- Am I right in assuming it needs a spererate, inner forestay?
Futureoptions sorry for the delay in answering, I picked up the idea of the twizzle rig from a book I read about Atlantic crossings and it looks quite interesting. Seems he problem with twin headsails is they accentuate any roll from the waves. Putting an air gap between the sails helps but the Twizzle rig enables the two spinnaker poles to move side to side reducing the ocsolation.

So the two poles are joined together loosely with a rope widget and then supported by a spinnaker halyard and downhaul which we already have. I like the idea because by just loosening the two sheets you can use the roller reefing to reduce the sail size as they both roll together. This could be carried out from the cockpit easily in seconds if a squall came through.

The Twizzle Rig or Twistle Rig for Downwind Ocean Sailing

There are some interesting You tube videos too:

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Old 28-12-2009, 08:27   #25
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Lots of good advise - I will not add to it.

The reason to have a chute is the feeling you get when it is up there, pulling. The feeling you get swinging through a flawless gibe (not hard if you keep a little tension on both sheets and steer steadily).

It is part of sailing.

Another reason for using a sock, unstated, is that it makes handling the large sail on-deck much easier. Though I can set and douse more quickly without it, getting the sail below deck is MUCH easier in the sock. I simply lower it through the hatch with the halyard. In the bag, it won't fit.

Though jibing is in general a 2-person job, setting and lowering can be done by one in light air (in a breeze the sheet needs to be eased more slowly).
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Old 28-12-2009, 09:03   #26
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We have a fab cruising chut of about 1000 sq ft. The foot is on a fitting outsie the forestay, so although we can gybe it outside, we tend to stuff it in the sock, gybe and rehoist. Absolutely well worth having.

It does not like swell but otherwise makes a huge difference; our last day of sailing in 2009 was from Cittavecchia to Rome in virtually no wind and we sailed the whole way with the chute up when we could not have sailed without it.
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Old 28-12-2009, 09:19   #27
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Good sail

I really like the asymetrical spinnaker with snuffer. I use it whenever I am on appropriate point of sail and winds are 8knots or less. Since I single hand I only set it if I am somewhat certian that I will be on the tack for a couple of hours or more. Again, since single handing I do not jibe the sail. I snuff it then re-set on the new tack for fear of wrapping it.
I would definately recomend getting one.
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Old 28-12-2009, 10:25   #28
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If you have a North Sails loft nearby ask them to give you a copy of their cruising sail CD which has a video explaining the different sails and examples of how they are deployed. We got the G3 Gennaker with snuffer and tacker.
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Old 28-12-2009, 11:02   #29
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I bought this cruising chute from Bacon & Assoc. for $700 some years ago.


I don't use it often, but when the conditions are right it's a joy! The foot is 33.5' and it's dramatic on my 41' boat. I use an outside gybe without problems and snuff it with a sock. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew
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Old 31-12-2009, 23:14   #30
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Spinnaker?

Hi I read your post and after many years of racing with spinnakers I recommend an Asym. There are several configurations the one that will best suit your needs would be a reacher with a retrieval bag this will allow you to go down wind and reach to approximately 90-110 degrees apparent. I have after 30 years of spinnaker racing gone to Asyms as they require no pole and can be handled similarly to a Genoa. If you have any other concerns do not hesitate to email me. I own and race a HOOD 38 and have done so for over 20 years.
GOOD LUCK Steve Hicks
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