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Old 11-11-2013, 14:50   #1
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Ditching the Vang?

I'm trying to fit too many things into one place but!

I have a Pearson Triton. I'm replacing my 7' crappy dinghy with a hopefully better 7' pram. I really want to preserve the ability to keep the dinghy on deck if needed (for offshore passages) and also want to stick with a one piece - it's pretty much my lifeboat and if something is going wrong fast I don't want to horse around putting a nesting dinghy together.

My current dinghy hangs over the hatch a bit, and I can only assume the new one will do the same. It's quite close to the mast and just barely misses the vang. That said I haven't had any problems with the dinghy fouling the vang. But it's got about an inch of clearance.

I also want to get a dodger this year. I'm hoping to make it to Newfoundland and need a place to duck out of the weather. Guess that goes without saying.

So...I'm thinking that I'm going to install a sea hood that's going to be longer than the hatch opening is now, so I can have the dinghy on deck and attach the dodger to the sea hood. The hatch will be somewhat shorter, which will suck a bit but that's a compromise I'll have to make.

Anyway, the other variable is the vang. I'm wondering if I can ditch the permanent vang. I'm probably going to install a beafier mainsheet traveller. If I have that, can I get away with no vang for beating, and then clipping the vang to the rail as needed for reaching, and using it as a preventer for running?

This would give me some more dinghy room, which would give me some more hatch space. Having the vang be generally removable would give me some more latitude into using it as a preventer. But I would pretty much lose the ability to vang to windward.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Paul
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Old 11-11-2013, 15:12   #2
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

The editors of. Good old boat magazine use a double vang/preventer settup on their c&c 30. Mystic which may be worth looking at as it utilizes 2 tackles with a common line, the tackles attatch in the normal position on the boom but the other ends attatch at the toerail each side allowing for good control of twist but also act as a permenantly settup preventer each side and because there is nothing going to the base of the mast it may work with your dinghy in place on the cabin top. I expect you can get the details online.

Steve.
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Old 11-11-2013, 15:33   #3
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

if you havent already replaced your dinghy, now would be the time to find a dinghy that fits on your deck rather than modifying your deck for the dinghy.
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Old 11-11-2013, 15:50   #4
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

It sounds like your going to need a bigger boat pretty soon. Why not put the dinghy forward of the mast as most people do.

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Old 11-11-2013, 15:59   #5
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

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Originally Posted by charliehows View Post
if you havent already replaced your dinghy, now would be the time to find a dinghy that fits on your deck rather than modifying your deck for the dinghy.
That'd be great if I had another foot or two...but I don't. I'd rather have a foot longer dinghy that's seaworthy and a moderately smaller hatch than vice versa. I can squeeze all this stuff in there, just trying to figure out the details. I may make the transom of the dinghy removable to give a little more wiggle room, that would be pretty easy to pop in if the need arises.
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Old 11-11-2013, 16:00   #6
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
It sounds like your going to need a bigger boat pretty soon. Why not put the dinghy forward of the mast as most people do.

I confess...that looks pretty unseaworthy. How do you get on deck?

It's the boat I got, and it's a good boat. Something else would mean selling this and then buying another much more expensive boat that probably needs just as much fooling with as this one.
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Old 11-11-2013, 16:09   #7
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

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Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
The editors of. Good old boat magazine use a double vang/preventer settup on their c&c 30. Mystic which may be worth looking at as it utilizes 2 tackles with a common line, the tackles attatch in the normal position on the boom but the other ends attatch at the toerail each side allowing for good control of twist but also act as a permenantly settup preventer each side and because there is nothing going to the base of the mast it may work with your dinghy in place on the cabin top. I expect you can get the details online.

Steve.
Thanks Steve. I'm looking over the vang-preventer article now. On face it looks like it might be a solution to several problems. I'm just wondering...seems like it will limit movement along the decks. Have to look into it some more.

Thanks!
Paul
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Old 11-11-2013, 16:13   #8
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

Good Old Boat - Vang/preventer: article

This looks good. I have to see where the lines would end up. I would not want to restrict movement forward. But getting a vang and a preventer in the same rig and being able to ditch the mainsheet traveler would be perfect.
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Old 11-11-2013, 18:33   #9
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

Wanted to keep the real-estate behind the mast so went with traditional vangs fastened to pad eyes close to the rail and tails led to cam cleats at the cockpit. The end boom traveller takes care of the main till it's well off center so not an issue. A mid boom traveller would need a vang over an even a lesser angle. The boom to mast traveller is a fairly recent innovation. Sailors made it all the way into the '80s without having them.

Saw a boat a long time ago that used the dinghy as a spray hood for the companion way hatch. They'd cut the transom to closely fit over the hatch. You could have the dodger fitted around and to the dinghy if it won't stow far enough forward not to interfere.

I've done a TransPac and a sail to French Polynesia and back with a rigid dinghy in chocks on the foredeck and a half inflated Avon Redcrest aft of the mast. Bigger boats/smaller dinghy than the one pictured above, however. Currently have an 8 footer in chocks on the foredeck. Actually handy to have there. Makes it easier to move forward in a seaway and stand on it at the mast to get at just about everything I need to. The Redcrest makes a great lounge downwind and in port when it's not in the water.
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Old 12-11-2013, 13:19   #10
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

Thanks Peter. I am going to build a 7' Catspaw dinghy from B&B Yacht Designs:
catspaw

I don't think it would fit on the foredeck of a 28' boat but I haven't really thought about it.

That's interesting about fitting the dodger to the dinghy. The only problem of course is that I'll probably be towing the dinghy the vast majority of the time. But I guess maybe you could fit a panel in to fill the gap. I'll have to see about that. I may end up making one from the Sailrite kit. That would probably tax my currently non-existing sewing skills but I'll have to see.

Thanks!
Paul
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Old 12-11-2013, 15:36   #11
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

It would be easy to modify a plywood dinghy to have a removable section of transom to fit over your hatch or sea hood.
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Old 12-11-2013, 23:20   #12
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

Sully, I am not sure where you got the idea that you would be towing the dinghy 80 percent of the time. I cruised a 26 footer for about 9000miles and think I towed the dink less than 5% of the time. I started with a vang and ended up with permanent preventers on each side. Yes it made another thing to step over to go forward, but they were well worth it. _____Grant.
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Old 13-11-2013, 00:09   #13
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

A vang system that leads straight down to the toe rail is a better vang in some areas.

The toe rail vang pulls nearly straight down on the boom, applying the force in the direction you want, if your mast vang is at 45 degrees you have to apply 1.4 times as force on the line to get the same down force. The mast vang is also pulling the boom towards the mast. With the boom out it is trying to tear the gooseneck off of the mast sideways. I've seen this on a Shaw 24.

The toe rail vang holds the boom forward and locks it in place in sloppy conditions, but relying on it as a preventer can be a bad idea. Part way to Hawaii, autopilot failed, boat jibed, boom did not jibe from vang attachment point to the mast, the rest of the boom jibed. In other words I broke the boom.
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Old 13-11-2013, 00:22   #14
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

Grant from prior experience in coastal cruising I generally towed if the weather was good

John. I was thinking of making the vang from some sort of dynamic rope that would have some stretch. Good idea?
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Old 13-11-2013, 01:41   #15
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Re: Ditching the Vang?

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Originally Posted by sully75 View Post

John. I was thinking of making the vang from some sort of dynamic rope that would have some stretch. Good idea?
I don't think shock load was the issue, so stretchy rope won't help. Mostly the force from the sail on the boom puts it in compression, if you have a loose footed sail it is all compression, which is what the boom is primarily designed for I believe. Now restrain the boom a few feet from the mast and pull hard sideways and you're going to fold the boom. Most seamanship books say a proper preventer goes from the end of the boom forward to the bow. This way you're not trying to bend/break the boom.
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