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Old 22-08-2013, 12:33   #31
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

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As for furling down-wind, I have not tried that on the basis that a full sail presents more opposing force when trying to furl.
We refer here to the headsail. I would not head down to drop the main. I also offered a caveat 'depending on conditions.'

That said.... You don't keep the sheets hard on. Turn down, stalling the headsail with your main, loosing the sheets some, and then furl from there.

Depending on conditions, heading up can cause the clews to flog and the sail to whip about and that makes for difficulty, and a messy furl.
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Old 22-08-2013, 12:34   #32
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

Everything I've read about Harkens says just fresh water flushing or a dry lubricant. Harken's claim to fame is "requires no lubrication". My 02 is 25 years old and works just fine, never been lubricated, just flushed with fresh water. I easily furl it by hand.

A search will show you that Harken says no lubrication.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=harke...ation&start=20


Whenever possible I furl the headsail with wind in it. That way you get a nice tight furl. The more wind, the tighter the furl. If it's blowing too hard I flog it a bit to start the furl, otherwise just ease the sheet and pull on the furling line.
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Old 22-08-2013, 20:01   #33
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Furling a headsail while sailing downwind(sail out perpendicular to boat) is easier because you are pulling the sail across the force of the wind instead of against it. Your sheets are also not fighting the furl.
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Old 22-08-2013, 20:15   #34
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pirate Re: Difficulty furling genoa

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Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
Yeah. There are still people out there who don't follow the herd instinct, who aren't lemmings.

Things get rowdy all I have to do in order to de-power is let go the clutch handling the jib halyard. Down she comes like a rocket, boat comes up onto her feet and I have complete control. If too dangerous to go forward I can let the jib flog, knowing full well there'll be some repairs required later on.

I cringe at the thought about consequences for delay getting things under control while I wrestle getting a furled foresail in...
LOLOL... you have no idea how much I wished I had a furler when I needed to drop a No 3 in 60kts and 9metre seas... on a 22ftr..
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Old 22-08-2013, 22:08   #35
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

Well I believe I have the issue whipped. Many thanks to all who gave advice. It really came down to halyard tension. After releasing the halyard and giving only ~6" slack furling became much easier. Luckily there was no halyard wrap. Nevertheless, I pulled down the genoa and gave the top collar a good cleaning, followed by a WD-40 bath. It was already spinning quite freely. Then I hoisted the sail and magically the extra luff at the tack disappeared. I pulled the sail all the way up and then backed off about 6", then furled. Voila!! Then re-tensioned the halyard while she's parked in her slip.

I know several of you advised against using WD-40 but the manual specifically recommends it. I'll be dropping the folks at Harken a note to see what they say. Maybe the original recommendation proved to be a bad idea and they have since advised against WD-40. We shall see. Boat show is coming up and I plan to have this conversation with the folks in the Harken booth. For now, the furling problem...she's solved. Many thanks!
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Old 23-08-2013, 00:41   #36
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

It's good to see your problem is solved. In case it helps someone else, another thing to check for is a drum that is too full of line, or a foul turned line on the drum - although these would be more likely to result in a jammed furler rather than just a tight one.

For the drum being too full, this can easily happen if you swap sails around without ensuring that there are only one or two turns around the drum when the sail is fully furled. It may be that the furler is on the size limit for that boat.

Also, for a furler to work well, the line must lead in from the correct angle. If the drum loads more on the top or bottom, foul turns happen more readily.

In all cases, when unfurling the sail, keep a little tension on the furling line to ensure that it wraps tightly on the drum as the sail pulls out.
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Old 23-08-2013, 02:44   #37
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

OUrs was difficult to furl, the solution was forestay tension, ie too slack, a slight tightening of the forestay made it soo much easier
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Old 23-08-2013, 03:21   #38
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

I always slacken the halyard before furling the genoa in.
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Old 23-08-2013, 05:52   #39
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

Often trouble furling genoa in when the rope has gone in to the furler without keeping little tension on it when genoa rolls open. It simply doesn't wind in in good order if you unfurl without holding the furling rope.

cheers
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:01   #40
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

I have never owned a Harken furler, but have had Reef-Rite, Schaeffer, Facnor and Furlex units. NONE of these required slackening the halyard before furling. I do not believe that any modern furler, properly installed, should require this slackening. The Harken is a popular and well designed bit of kit, so I doubt if it materially differs from the ones that I have personally owned.

If your furler won't operate with normal sailing tension on the halyard, there is something wrong with either the bearings or the installation. One very likely problem is, as someone else mentioned, too much sag in the forestay. This adds a lot of friction to the furling process.

Cheers,

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Old 23-08-2013, 10:20   #41
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Egads. I've never used a furler before this year (that's what crew is for!) The furler on our new old boat has been difficult since day 1 and I just chalked it up to age. I guess I need to do more research. Semi-related: what would cause the furler to 'lose' line? Last time we tried to furl in 25kt wind we ran out of line with a couple feet still out, had to manually feed line into the barrel until we had enough length to get it done.
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Old 23-08-2013, 10:28   #42
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I think Jim nailed it. Most furler issues are due to installation problems. The halyard needs to be more than a specific angle from the mast and a boat not built for a furler needs an installer who knows what he is doing.

Edit: I too dont slaken my halyard. If you have to do this you have an installation problem.
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Old 23-08-2013, 10:28   #43
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

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Originally Posted by AbaftAndBaffled View Post
Egads. I've never used a furler before this year (that's what crew is for!) The furler on our new old boat has been difficult since day 1 and I just chalked it up to age. I guess I need to do more research. Semi-related: what would cause the furler to 'lose' line? Last time we tried to furl in 25kt wind we ran out of line with a couple feet still out, had to manually feed line into the barrel until we had enough length to get it done.
In strong winds your furl or wrap is tighter. Therefore it takes more wraps to completely furl the sail, more wraps, more line. If your furling line is not long enough, in strong winds you will run out of line before the sail is completely furled. In light or no wind your sail will furl loosely and you'll have lots of line.

When initially hoisting the sail it is advisable to put 4 or 5 wraps on the drum before hoisting the sail. This way you'll have adequate line to furl in strong winds.
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Old 23-08-2013, 10:36   #44
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

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LOLOL... you have no idea how much I wished I had a furler when I needed to drop a No 3 in 60kts and 9metre seas... on a 22ftr..
It's sort of like the saying it's time to reef when you first think of it. I'd like to see you furl anything in 60 knot wind and 9 meter seas.

Wait too long reducing or dousing a sail and you may well pay for it.
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Old 23-08-2013, 13:49   #45
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Re: Difficulty furling genoa

I had this very same problem earlier this year. Did what you did, with the winch, and snapped the whole forestay. Rakuflames is right, you should inspect the forestay, even if it takes hiring a rigger to help you get the foil off. Chances are that you will need him for some work anyway.

When you buy a previously owned boat you or the previous owner may not be aware of inherent installation problems with your furler. For example, the installer of my hood 705 had a few extra inches at the top of the stay to meet manufacturers specifications, but had to buy another 5 foot foil extension only to cut off 4 inches. They didnt, and just knew what could happen and worked with it.

Me and the previous owner however didnt know that, i guess, and the furler at times would get jammed and be hard to furl. Result was that the stay periodically got twisted and by the time i came along, it was meathooks for 8 feet from the top of the stay. Because it was hidden inside the foil, nobody knew that this was an accident waiting to happen.

Luckily it snapped at the docks. Under sail the whole rig could have come crashing down.

If you are living on the cheap and dont hire the rigger to do an inspection (and to install at least a halyard restrainer to stop the halyard from wrapping the stay) you might want to get some free insurance from potential disaster and firmly secure the spinnaker halyard to the bow cleat and hold it right tight on the other end when you are monkeying around with this furler.

Unfortunately you will ultimately require a rigger, either now to inspect and install a deflector or later to replace the stay and possibly the mast.
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