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Old 26-09-2017, 13:01   #1
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Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

I wasn't there to see the 100 knot gusts hammer my boat. I see the sunken boats all over the marina and I have a two-foot-long hole at my hull-deck joint where the boat hammered a piling while apparently displacing my carefully-arranged fenderboard. GEICO has been great so far re. repair.

I can see that my Genoa halyard is frayed at one of the lower spreaders and I will replace it. My question to you old salts is: "Should I replace all of my running rigging after what it has been through?" My brand-new dock lines are as stiff in places as a pool cue from incredible loads. While the running rigging did not support the weight of the boat they were subjected to huge winds and, I assume, vibration.

Should I be concerned about the standing rigging? The mast and boom?

Thanks for your thoughts
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Old 26-09-2017, 13:18   #2
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

First, replace those dock lines. Since odds are they're stiff due to some of their fibers being melted, especially inside of the line. And after a hurricane, I'd replace anything like that that's questionable anyway.

As to the rigging, at a minimum a good inspection is in order. And given the option, I'd prefer to take the rig out & put it on some saw horses for this, rather than doing it from a bosun's chair. Since it's much, much easier to inspect everything with the rig out of the boat.

You could even ask Geico to cover this by asking them if the rig fails a month or 6 months from now, & it turns out that the reason for it is due to rigging having been damaged in the storm... You get the idea.

Also, it'd be wise to get a full survey of the boat done at your cost. Since there may have been damage caused in other areas not near that hole, due to the pounding that she took. Including inspecting the entire perimeter of the hull to deck joint for leaks, possibly with a pressure washer. Checking all of the bulkhead attachments/tabbing, ditto the furniture attached to the hull, etc.
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Old 26-09-2017, 14:10   #3
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

Uncivilized gave you a very complete answer. I would add that since we don't know how far the topsides were compromised, be a really good idea to check the chainplate on that side, anyway.

Next time, one thing you can do when you leave your boat is send the halyard to the masthead, with a "string" attached, and that will avoid sheave chafe. Obviously, the halyard was too close to the spreader, but the "string" approach will also reduce windage aloft. Of course, you have to figure out what to do with the bundle of the tail. We knew one guy, who actually took out the halyards, and just left long mouse lines for hurricane prep.

For the fender board having come out, they do try to do that. Some people make downhauls led under the hull and up the other side to keep them in place. Securing old tires to the dock can help, sometimes. It's tricky, 'cause they'll float with the surge, unless tied down. Fender board downhaul is an experiment you could make. If you have soft bottom paint, I'd try wide flat nylon webbing, to reduce chafe on the bottom paint.

Good your insurance is helping and your boat's still afloat.

Ann
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Old 26-09-2017, 15:07   #4
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

I'd say a rigging survey, since the one damaged wire might just be isolated chafe, but it could mean they all were subject to similar loads, and you won't see that from a look around the deck. At the least, run rages up every wire and check for meathooks. One meathook, just one, means "condemn" and I'd replace standing rigging in pairs, not just the one side or the other, to know they were equally up to the stress.

Than there's the age of the rigging, if it is 15-20 years old? Tell Geico you've lost confidence in the rig, since it was all stressed and you know at least one failed. See if they'll make an offer on re-rigging, it could be coming up on time anyway.

When in doubt...riggers are going to be in short supply but try to get a good one for an inspection. The thought of a full survey/inspection is also worth considering. For instance, if your boat hobbyhorsed and impacted the rudder, or debris hit the rudder, there can be a hairline crack that you'd never see without hauling. But even a hairline will cause water penetration and eventual rudder failure. Better to haul survey, inspect with a paranoid eye NOW just in case. And don't sign any checks until after, because they usually are payment in full for entire claims.
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Old 26-09-2017, 15:09   #5
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

You probably will want to pick up some dye penetrant (kits), along with several sheets of different coarsenesses of wet-dry sandpaper, some 3m ScotchBrite pads, & a magnifying glass or two, plus a pocket microscope. Brion Toss Yacht Riggers, Sailboat Rigging::Rigging Tools Assuming, that is, that you don't already have said items. As they'll make inspecting things like tangs, swages, turnbuckles, etc. a lot easier. Also, if you're in OCD mode, you could replace most or all of the toggles & pins. Since without question they got a real workout during the storm, with the rigging wiggling back & forth so much. And if you've ever even begun to think that you might want to add something else electrical to the rig, now's the time to add the wiring for it. Plus an extra set or two, for future projects. Ditto regarding adding a spare halyard, or setting up for a Solent Stay, or Staysail. You needn't hang the stay or halyard now, but having the sheave boxes, & tangs in place could save you from needing to drop the spar in the future in order to add them. And the parts are fairly inexpensive.
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Old 26-09-2017, 15:36   #6
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

Maybe I'm missing something, but how can these strong winds acting on a bare rig over stress standing rigging? If the boat was not knocked down, the stresses suffered by the rigging were less than those experienced in sailing in strong winds and seas. I don't see the problem.

Running rigging, which was the subject of the OP, is a different matter, but other than chafe, even the running rigging should not have suffered from exposure to strong winds.

Impact to the hull is a totally different set of issues, of course.

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Old 26-09-2017, 15:39   #7
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Maybe I'm missing something, but how can these strong winds acting on a bare rig over stress standing rigging? If the boat was not knocked down, the stresses suffered by the rigging were less than those experienced in sailing in strong winds and seas. I don't see the problem.

Running rigging, which was the subject of the OP, is a different matter, but other than chafe, even the running rigging should not have suffered from exposure to strong winds.

Impact to the hull is a totally different set of issues, of course.

Jim


My best guess would be cyclical loading from the mast pumping/oscillating
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Old 26-09-2017, 15:51   #8
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Maybe I'm missing something, but how can these strong winds acting on a bare rig over stress standing rigging? If the boat was not knocked down, the stresses suffered by the rigging were less than those experienced in sailing in strong winds and seas. I don't see the problem.

Running rigging, which was the subject of the OP, is a different matter, but other than chafe, even the running rigging should not have suffered from exposure to strong winds.

Impact to the hull is a totally different set of issues, of course.

Jim
Jim, you have a valid point. So perhaps I went a bit over the top with my earlier post. I still think that it'd be wise to look the rig over well. Especially if there are any indications at all of it's having shifted around on the step, that there's been bulkhead movement, or that the rig suffered any impacts during the storm.
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Old 26-09-2017, 16:09   #9
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

My rigging was taken out by winds in BVI (Road Town)..... I would definitely inspect as before there is total failure, there likely is micro damage . Inspect very closely.
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Old 26-09-2017, 17:52   #10
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

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My rigging was taken out by winds in BVI (Road Town)..... I would definitely inspect as before there is total failure, there likely is micro damage . Inspect very closely.
That's interesting. Could you tell us a little more about the failure, please? Like what elements did fail, and what the result was, and if possible, what actually caused the failure?

Perhaps we will all learn from your misfortune.

Jim
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Old 26-09-2017, 18:18   #11
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

I don't have enough information as Sea Tiger is in a charter fleet. I suspect a contributing factor was the main sail not being stripped off , but wrapped and tied. The winds gust at 225mph certainly did not help. I am a pilot as well and flying at 200mph plus can put a lot of stress on metal if not aligned perfectly to wind (and in a hurricane , that is not possible, especially if not truly swinging on an anchor. If I get any more useful info from surveyor, I will pass it on.
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Old 26-09-2017, 18:52   #12
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

From what I understand, metal, including steel (especially stainless) can micro crystalize due to vibration. Similar to what happens when you bend wire back & forth. Only that in rigging, it's the small amount of movement created by the wind, & or the boat's motion, that sometimes causes this. And that it won't necessarily even show up on xrays.

How much this happens in wire, especially near the end terminals, I can't say for certain. But I've been told by several riggers that rigging wire & components can suffer some wear from this, even when the boat's on the hard if the rig is left up.

Might bear asking a materials scientist.
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Old 26-09-2017, 23:13   #13
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Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

With airplanes it usually stress corrosion cracking, and usually high strength steels, over often decades and billions of cycles.
I'm with Jim, yes rigging may fail in some boats during a hurricane, but I'd bet they are usually boats that sit at anchor, don't sail, and the rigging is decades old.
Would have failed under sailing stresses, just the hurricane winds stresses came first, or said another way, it had already failed, just took the hurricane winds to bring it down.

All this assumes no aeroelastic movement, aka "flutter" think Tacoma narrows bridge for instance, that can overstress and cause failure.
Flutter is a terrifying phenomena to a test pilot and is not usually survivable, it almost always ends in the aircraft disintegrating. This film and some I have seen of glider wings are the only times I've seen it not go to destruction, I assume it's because the flutter was of relatively low frequency
https://youtu.be/qpJBvQXQC2M
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Old 26-09-2017, 23:27   #14
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

A good friend and Mentor during final certification flight testing of the Aero Commander 112 model aircraft, the tail got into flutter, later Rockwell duplicated it in the wind tunnel, less than 1 sec from onset to total failure.
RALPH, my friend got out, the other Engineer did not.
https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...id=61905&key=0
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Old 26-09-2017, 23:47   #15
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Re: Did Irma Wreck the Rigging?

To give an example of the kind of damage that prolonged or severe vibration can do to alloys of steel. A friend I used to wrench on motorcycles with, who's in law enforcement, once related a story to me of a motorcycle patrol officer who actually had the magazine in his pistol break in half from vibration, due to the extended periods that said officer spent on his motorcycle. The bike was a Harley Davidson, & thus it had no shortage of vibration any time the engine was on. Enough so as to cause the stainless steel magazine to self destruct due to embrittlement, in an almost zero load situation.

Is this common. I doubt it. But I'd say that it's more of a worry in rigging. And I'm sure that there are other applications where metals are used where vibration destroys the metal by causing it to crystalize & work harden, at quite predictable rates.
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