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Old 13-06-2016, 20:29   #16
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

I reckon that Schooner is being serious, but from a traditional boat point of view. You can (IMO) ignore the advice!

But, seeing that you are a newbie, do realize that most serious riggers and sailors deplore those shroud covers. As mentioned above, they trap salt water against the wire strands, and after a short while, that water becomes stagnant and de-oxygenated. Stainless steel depends on having some oxygen available at its surface to maintain the Chrome oxide layer that keeps other corrosion at bay, and the stagnant water lacks that element, and this hastens corrosion of your wire.

So, I would suggest that rather than replacing the covers, you remove and discard them. Your rigging will last longer and look better for this!

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Old 13-06-2016, 23:37   #17
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

I was serious but figured you wouldn't make them anyway. We have leather at the foremast spreaders but not the mainmast spreaders. Some folks make leather covers for the turnbuckles as well. In general clean and without a cover is best IMO.


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Old 14-06-2016, 00:48   #18
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

Be careful of the calliper thing, I had a set related to my work in a briefcase I bought aboard and eventually had to buy a small lathe to go with them. Then I found I needed a small mill and all sorts of gear to go with the callipers and lathe.
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Old 14-06-2016, 03:21   #19
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

Jim, Schooner, et. al I thought the purpose of the covers was to prevent chafing of the jib and jib sheets. How do you protect against that without covers on the shrouds and main mast spreaders?

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Old 14-06-2016, 05:15   #20
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

RaymondR ... it's not the lathe and the mill which are the problem ... it's when you install the surface grinder and the CNC Plasma cutting table that you know you have a real problem.

Out of interest ... which lathe and mill did you opt for?
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Old 14-06-2016, 06:57   #21
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

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Originally Posted by jannw View Post
RaymondR ... it's not the lathe and the mill which are the problem ... it's when you install the surface grinder and the CNC Plasma cutting table that you know you have a real problem.



Out of interest ... which lathe and mill did you opt for?

I've also got that problem. I haven't progressed to the Cnc plasma table yet, but a good friend of mine has. Whenever I need a fix I go to his garage.


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Old 14-06-2016, 09:05   #22
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddiscenza View Post
Jim, Schooner, et. al I thought the purpose of the covers was to prevent chafing of the jib and jib sheets. How do you protect against that without covers on the shrouds and main mast spreaders?

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The only purpose I have ever been able to figure out for covers is to promote rusting of the wire. All smart assery aside they are to prevent your arm hair from getting pulled out by the wire. But it's a terrible trade off. The covers not only hold stagnent water next to the wire, they also trap salt, and the higher the salt content the faster crevice corrosion occurres. Worse with the covers on you can't see what's happening to the wire so the first warning is a failed shroud.

Any type of covers are absolutely prohibited on stainless wire for racing. The chance of accelerated failure is just too high.

If there is something sharp enough on the shrouds to cause wear on the sail then you need new shrouds because one of the strands has failed. If the strands are all in good shape, keep them that way.
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Old 14-06-2016, 09:49   #23
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddiscenza View Post
Jim, Schooner, et. al I thought the purpose of the covers was to prevent chafing of the jib and jib sheets. How do you protect against that without covers on the shrouds and main mast spreaders?

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We did put mast boots on our foremast spreaders only because a schooner has a foremast that can, in theory, interact with the jib and a mainmast aft which has little chance of spreader interaction with anything other than the mainsail on a run. Having said that, we did rub a hole into the mainsail
very quickly during light and variable winds on a run. The cover over the tip might have prevented this. More diligent watch standing would have done it as well. Nighttime sail and not shining a flashlight up into the rig enough I suppose.

So in our inexperience when we rigged our boat in 2009, we had it exactly backwards. Needed the spreader tips of the main covered but not those of the foremast. Live and learn.

We were being safe because we really didn't know if we were going to need the boots on the foremast -- and we didn't from the touching a sail perspective -- and will likely cut them off at some point as even when running we don't have the same problem with the foresail touching the spreader as the mainsail. Because they are leather they breathe as plastic does not. We also made them a bit loose so they're not in touch with the shroud as they're more or less mounted onto the spreader itself. With wood spreaders, we'll likely find that we've done more to harm the wood, holding moisture against it, than the wire so after removing them from the foremast spreaders I'm pretty sure we won't be putting some on the (also wood) mainmast spreaders.

The jib sheets won't have problems with your shrouds if they do rub. If you're doing a multi-day passage and see that you're rubbing against something you can always use riggers tape, leather, or another material to temporarily pad an area. That's the theory behind baggy wrinkle, too. You can have problems with the turnbuckles and seizing wire on the turnbuckles. That's a reason some people use rigging tape around pins, rings, and wires used for mousing. Sail your boat a bit in a wide range of conditions and see what you think.
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Old 14-06-2016, 13:46   #24
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Re: Determining shroud diameter

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Originally Posted by jannw View Post
RaymondR ... it's not the lathe and the mill which are the problem ... it's when you install the surface grinder and the CNC Plasma cutting table that you know you have a real problem.

Out of interest ... which lathe and mill did you opt for?
Both of them Seiv, the mill is about ten or eleven years old and is missing the original motor, drive line and controls, I drive it using an electric drill threaded onto the top of the draw bar, as I use hole saws in it a lot and the gears would not survive the shock loading and high torque. Also the electronics went out and I have found that the folks I bought it from are not reliable on spare parts supply.

I have had two C2 lathes the first with the brushed motor and the second with a brushless. I have not had the brushless very long and am a bit disappointed with it however the new one has a 100mm longer bed and I am considering putting the 2 speed head from the old one onto the new bed and fitting the brushless to that combination.

Pretty wild thread drift here, think I might go start a thread on floating machine shops.
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