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Old 05-04-2019, 13:37   #1
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Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

Hello everyone

I have finally decided to install a removable cutter stay/solent stay on our Scanmar 33, in order to have a hardwind sail of max 10 m2. The hardest part, and the reason why I have hesitated to do the installation, is to know that the attachment in the deck (folding pad eye) becomes strong enough.

I know that this topic has been discussed earlier here, but what makes this one a bit more difficult is:
  • it is not possible to bolt a (vertical) anchorage straight under the pad eye, this when the windlass is in its path.
  • bolting/attaching a beam in, for example, stainless steel (horizontal) is difficult since the deck is not flat but has the shape of a circle segment.
  • it is not easy to attach a beam in the deck/hull as it is difficult to access.

I have attached three pictures showing what i looks like “today”.

A fairly simple solution should/could be:
  • Form a plywood board that fits to the deck, from the inside, about 2 feet wide.
  • Bolt the board to the bulkhead and connected it to the pad eye on the deck

With this solution, the deck will still pick up the largest load. But there will be no direct point load.

What do you think of this solution? Will it bet strong enough?

I would love to have some help with how to solve this!

Regards Karl (Sweden)
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Old 05-04-2019, 14:04   #2
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

I've done a similar project. It seems to me the simplest answer is to move the padeye location aft a bit so that it is above, or just forward of, the transverse bulkhead at the back of the windless locker. For extra strength make a SS backing plate/bracket under the padeye with a leg that goes down and can be bolted to the bulkhead.

Good luck,

JR
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Old 05-04-2019, 14:16   #3
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

Thanks.

I will place the padeye above the bulkhead and bolt it to some reinforcment. But will that be strong enough?
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Old 05-04-2019, 14:25   #4
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

I’m planning the same thing, but I would (in your case) move the eye location so that it is bolted directly to a decent hunk of stainless steel that goes all the way down the bulkhead bolted on. And at the same time ensure that the bulkhead is substantially tabbed to the hull all the way around. I would also be very careful to go to a very strong padeye if you’re choosing a folding one — most are not designed for a significant upward load and you are going to be pulling on this enough to attempt to bend the hull if you have a storm jib on. I’d want the padeye and it’s fitting strong enough to be able to lift the bow out of the water.

To answer your question directly, no I don’t think fitting it to the deck alone is enough. It needs to be thoroughly attached to the hull.
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Old 05-04-2019, 14:28   #5
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

Just as an aside, if you’re moving the windlass into where the gas is shown on your picture, I trust you’re moving the gas cylinder somewhere else? Massive no-no to have any electrical stuff in your gas locker.
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Old 05-04-2019, 14:52   #6
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

A transverse bulkhead like yours at the aft end of a chain locker should be very strong, but like Tillsbury said you should check that it is so.
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:34   #7
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

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Originally Posted by Tillsbury View Post
so that it is bolted directly to a decent hunk of stainless steel that goes all the way down the bulkhead bolted on. And at the same time ensure that the bulkhead is substantially tabbed to the hull all the way around.
Just to check if I understand you correctly: I get some stainless steel that is is connected to the pad end I design the steel plate in such a way that it is possible to bolt it to the bulkhead over a large area. If I understand you correctly I do not need tp connect the steel plate to the hull. Correct? It should be ok to bolt it to the bulkhead, right?

Thanks for your help

Karl
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:59   #8
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

One more thing to worry about is that even if you make the pad eye attachment point strong enough for the sail, you might still be able to apply to much pressure with a highfield lever (if you are using one).

I have to be very careful not to tighten my highfield lever too much on my removable inner stay less I separate the deck from the bulkhead below.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:20   #9
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

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Originally Posted by Tillsbury View Post
Just as an aside, if you’re moving the windlass into where the gas is shown on your picture, I trust you’re moving the gas cylinder somewhere else? Massive no-no to have any electrical stuff in your gas locker.
Well this is a difficult one to solve. I have to choose between having the gas tank inside the boat or in the bow/chain compartment. The bow compartment is well ventilated in the bottom, and in Sweden the gas has a very strong smell (to discover leaks). So I went for the solution to have the gas in the bottom/front of the compartment.

I do appreciate your concern and perhaps I will consider changing the location in the future. (Or at least add some sort of remote controlled valve.)

Karl
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:26   #10
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

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Originally Posted by MooGroc View Post
I have to be very careful not to tighten my highfield lever too much on my removable inner stay less I separate the deck from the bulkhead below.
Thanks. I have problems with interpreting the enclosed picture. In what direction is the deck? Is the connection to the deck pad visibly?
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:18   #11
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

Yes, the gas bottles can not be in the same place as the windlass.

The padeye should be aft of the bulkhead. Make a slightly bent chainplate, attach to the lower part of the bulkhead. A rigging screw between this and the padeye.

This is due to the fact that the forces are not verticals the stay is at an angle to the bulkhead. Most of the force is vertical, but some horizontal. The collision bulkhead where my inner forestay is mounted is actually angled and in line with the stay.

Very much dependent on deck construction wether the deck can take the forces if not in line. The bulkhead can.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:21   #12
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

I added a cutter attachment and ended up with a double pad eye, on deck and under, made a plastic coated cable, eyes at each end with an adjustable turnbuckle and then attached that to my bitter end in the anchor locker.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:37   #13
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

Mine is made with a reinforced bulkhead and a stainless steel right angle bracket through bolted to a fitting on the deck. The SS bracket also has a welded gusset to stiffen it.

Make sure that the bulkhead between the chain locker and whatever is behind it is not just a partition. It has to be strong enough to take rigging loads.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:49   #14
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

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Originally Posted by Greg Mason View Post
I added a cutter attachment and ended up with a double pad eye, on deck and under, made a plastic coated cable, eyes at each end with an adjustable turnbuckle and then attached that to my bitter end in the anchor locker.
Nice solution!
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Old 09-04-2019, 14:34   #15
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Re: Deck reinforcment for a cutterstay

I had a custom *curved* T beam created that spans the foredeck, just under the deck. Each end of the beam has a pad with three bolts going through the hull. I allowed for room so that I could beef up the inside of the hull in the attachment area with epoxy and fiberglass matt. With this approach there is zero stress on the deck, all on the side of the hull in an upward direction only. Whole assembly was made of welded SS and they polished it like a mirror. Not cheap, but for peace of mind it was well worth the cost.
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