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28-05-2008, 06:51
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beaufort, NC
Boat: 38' Hans Christian
Posts: 23
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Deck Backing Material and Width
Hi,
We are about to install a wind generator- we were thinking about using StarBoard for the backing material, but we weren't sure the best width. We will probably use the extra to replace the backing on the bow cleats also.
Any suggestions?
Thanks!
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28-05-2008, 07:08
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,857
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Don't know much about starboard but I would wonder if it has the compreshive strength to handle being a backing plate. One way to test this would be to take a nut and bolt and tighten it on a piece of starBoard. If the material starts to deform it is probably not a suitable material. I would think that Aluminum plate would be better. My cleats are backed with 3/16 or 1/4 aluminum plate.
__________________
Fair Winds,
Charlie
Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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28-05-2008, 09:56
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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I prefer using SS plate for backings. First it's compatible with SS fasteners and the thickness required isn't as much as alum. or hardwoods. The only non-metallic material I think I, me, myself would use, would be, a carbon-fiber composite backed with washers.
No offense Charlie, but I've seen some major electrolysis using aluminum backing plates.
The alum. backing plates holding this track on, I was able to pull off without even unbolting it.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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28-05-2008, 10:04
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,857
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No offense Taken Del I can see you point about SS. I checked my backing plates for 2 of the six cleats and the aluminium is holding up great. If I have any problems though I'll go to SS. The logic is there.
__________________
Fair Winds,
Charlie
Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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28-05-2008, 12:14
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
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Backing plates need to be more than Starboard. If Starboard could do the job you would not require a backing plate at all. A wind genrator is going to need a real backing plate as would a cleat located any place. Make sure to use sealant on the threads and nut with large washers.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
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28-05-2008, 12:15
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#6
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Sponsoring Vendor
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Milton, Ontario
Boat: still dreaming...getting close...
Posts: 192
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We use Almag-35 backing plates. No electrolysis, no rust, and it is stronger than regular aluminum so it dosn't need to be as thick. Almag is better than SS for marine applications IMHO, but everyone will have their own idea of "better".
I have used star board for a few applications (floor boards, etc.) in the past and find that it's really not all its cracked up to be. I'm sure that even with an oversized washer a tightened nut would eventually pull through.
__________________
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd. Over 40 years of Marine Innovation, Quality and Craftsmanship
Davits, Hatches, Ports, Hatch Repairs, Motor Lifts, Arches/Hardtops and Custom Designs www.AtkinsHoyle.com | atkinshoyle@dapa.com
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28-05-2008, 12:19
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
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Quote:
We use Almag-35 backing plates. No electrolysis, no rust, and it is stronger than regular aluminum so it doesn't need to be as thick.
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We have some. I had to pull a rope clutch that died of old age and the Almag backing plates was as good as new after 17 years. It's nice stuff but I have no clue where you could get some.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
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28-05-2008, 12:31
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#8
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Sponsoring Vendor
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Milton, Ontario
Boat: still dreaming...getting close...
Posts: 192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pblais
It's nice stuff but I have no clue where you could get some.
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We cast our own Almag-35 backing plates. We make them in four sizes; 6"x6", 6"x9", 9"x12" and 12"x 16" for the heavy duty stuff. We also anodize them to give even more protection against corrosion in the salt.
They are definitely more expensive than a piece of wood or SS, but, as you say, they last like nothing else.
__________________
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd. Over 40 years of Marine Innovation, Quality and Craftsmanship
Davits, Hatches, Ports, Hatch Repairs, Motor Lifts, Arches/Hardtops and Custom Designs www.AtkinsHoyle.com | atkinshoyle@dapa.com
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04-06-2008, 08:45
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SW Florida
Boat: Bristol (Alden) 35 Sloop "Zephyr"
Posts: 508
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I use 3/8" aluminum plates for backing on cleats. 1/4" in my opinion is not thick enough. I paint the plates before installing, and use antisieze on the bolts.
If I was rich, stainless would be my choice
I get my alum plate at a scrap metal yard.
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04-06-2008, 08:50
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norfolk, VA
Boat: Morgan 34 and Watkins 27 astern of me. Hans Christian 38T is our current love
Posts: 66
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Money Issue
Ok, so we dropped the Starboard idea, but still haven't really decided. Given the overall quality of our boat (a Watkins 27'), there are no backing plates on anything. We are going to reinforce all stanchions, cleats, wind generator mast/ stays, etc. For the quantity of backing material required, I don't think we can afford stainless steel. How about marine grade plywood and largest washers possible? What thickness plywood would be recommended? We plan on refitting for the next year or so and then cruising for as long as possible before we get a bigger boat. So that also weighs into the equation.
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04-06-2008, 09:59
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pittsburg CA
Boat: Coronado 45 - Rubber Duckies
Posts: 4
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You might take a look at G10. It's a structural epoxy composite and is available from several online sources. My personal favorite is McMasters-Carr. You can cut it with a jig-saw and epoxy it in place. Then use large stainless washers. Really oversize the backing plate to spread the load over the glass panel. I use 1/4 or 3/8 depending on loading. McMasters has the load and crush data for each size on thier site. It's comparable to aluminum in that respect, but is easier on tools.
__________________
Darrell Ford
Coronado 45 "Rubber Duckies"
Pittsburg CA
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04-06-2008, 11:03
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#12
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,084
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Although I wouldn’t recommend G-10 (& it’s like) for backers, if you must use a thermoset laminate, then I’d prefer the flame retardant version, FR-4 epoxy.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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06-06-2008, 08:00
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norfolk, VA
Boat: Morgan 34 and Watkins 27 astern of me. Hans Christian 38T is our current love
Posts: 66
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Hardwood Backer
Visiting a friend on his wooden boat last night, I noticed that all of his deck hardware is backed with 1/2" oak. This is in addition to the deck, which I believe is also 1/2" oak. So, now I think I'm gonna go with either 1/2" oak or teak. Really, if the bolts rip out after that, it's gonna take the deck with it too.
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06-06-2008, 08:19
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#14
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,084
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There are two potential problems associated with wood backers:
- Dimensional stability
Wood is both soft, and imperfectly stable, so fastenings can loosen over time.
- Rot
Wood is subject to severe degradation when wet.
Metals, such as aluminum, stainless steel, & titanium are preferred backing materials.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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