Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-02-2009, 09:43   #46
Registered User
 
Heikki's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Finland
Boat: Stormwind 40 cutter rigged steel ketch - "Columba Livia"
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Often the big double Bowlines would hang up on my staysail stay....
They do not only hang up, but way too often also break the UV-protection of the staysail. I just sent mine to NortSails to be fixed. I asked them to sew in a harder piece on that very spot. Would there have been a smarter way to protect the staysail from the genoa sheet knots going back and forth?
__________________

__________________
Heikki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 16:42   #47
Marine Service Provider
 
Cacique's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Boat: Vancouver 27
Posts: 234
OK Guys the whipping I use works and you can still tie and untie the sail providing you have left about a foot before the whipping. I reckon rigging tape will certainly work short time.
Hud3 says
"That knot is called a "Lark's Head", and slides through the slot nicely. That's what I use."
I'm not (knot haha) farmiliar with this knot any details will be gratefully received by me (and probably many others).
Cheers jamie
__________________
__________________

__________________
Cheers Jamie
http://www.sailingcacique.com/
Cacique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 09:21   #48
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
You need a one piece line to use as both sheets. Bend a loop at the center point of the line. Pass the loop a few inches through the clew cringle and then just pass the ends through the loop. pull the ends all the way through. It is very strong and makes an almost non existant knot. Doesnt chafe either because it's tight on the cringle.
__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 17:04   #49
Marine Service Provider
 
Cacique's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Boat: Vancouver 27
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
You need a one piece line to use as both sheets. Bend a loop at the center point of the line. Pass the loop a few inches through the clew cringle and then just pass the ends through the loop. pull the ends all the way through. It is very strong and makes an almost non existant knot. Doesnt chafe either because it's tight on the cringle.
Oh right we call that a 'cow hitch'
__________________
Cheers Jamie
http://www.sailingcacique.com/
Cacique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 20:01   #50
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
The trouble with knots is a cow hitch is the same knot as a larks head. Technically, the cow hitch has a bitter end. The lark's head is associated with macram and does not.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 20:44   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
Some have called it a "Yankee", but seeing as the boat is named The Belle of Virginia, I rejected that appelation.
I run a yankee and staysail on our cutter rig; works like a champ. The staysail is on a boom so it's self tacking. Never had any problems.

I'm not a genoa guy anyway; in good wind we'll run the yankee and staysail together, and in strong wind the staysail with a reefed main makes the boat quite well balanced. I favor a drifter for light winds; folds up nicely and barely takes any room (compared to a full genoa, at least).
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 22:10   #52
Do or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Before using your genoa in high winds like 40-50 knots, check the windspeed it was designed for. Most of them are for 25 knots... apparent wind!!

The reason for not using foam is mildew and deteriation. Best thing to do in high winds is furl it completely and set a staysail or smaller jib.

When we ordered new sails we decided to do without the foam (our old jib did have it) but we reduced the size from 100% to 95%. We also used hydranet material instead of dacron and tri-radial cut instead of cross-cut. The result is a much faster sail with less surface area. It still works okay for furling it a bit but we almost never need that because the new material and cut (and 5% less surface) let it keep it's shape so much better (can be pulled flat as a blade) in high winds that furling isn't needed up to 25 knots.

I think too many cruisers concentrate on big size (wow! 140%) genoa's but forget that for anything other than downwind sailing, the shape is more important (and there's better sails for downwind anyway). Combined with the trend for changing to in-mast furling it is something I have a hard time understanding. The main looses so much surface and the resulting shape looses so much efficiency, it's almost like one tries to make up for that with a bigger genoa. But that results in a unbalanced sailplan, way too much heeling and so much less performance that it's no wonder many choose to use the engine instead... hmpff, got that off my chest ;-)

Catamarans do better; they tend to go more and more to high efficiency, full battened, big roach bat-wing-shaped mainsails so that today almost all of them have that. Shame they put that rig on two hulls with some sticks in between ;-)

cheers,
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 23:35   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 61
I've used both having the staysail up and what I thought was called the "trycing line" . Both work. Leaving the staysail up is easier. We were having to short-tack up a river a few years ago; about 25 seconds per side. Leaving the (self-tending) staysail up was the only thing that could work tacks this fast. The trycing line works too but it is a bit awkward. I just led a single line from the cockpit through a turning block behind the jib furler to the jib clew; dump the jib sheet, pull the clew forward of the inner forestay, trim the opposite jib sheet while releasing the trycing line.

An additional advantage to having the staysail up in these conditions is that a cutter should point about 5 degrees closer to the wind when flying both headsails; at least mine does.

BTW, I'm sure you know that a cutter is not a sloop with an extra stay; the mast is also 5-10% DWL farther aft. For this reason you are right in not trying to remove the inner forestay. Those detachable things are for sloops masquerading as cutters.
__________________
Kamaloha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 00:03   #54
Do or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamaloha View Post
BTW, I'm sure you know that a cutter is not a sloop with an extra stay; the mast is also 5-10% DWL farther aft. For this reason you are right in not trying to remove the inner forestay. Those detachable things are for sloops masquerading as cutters.
Exactly. And if you fit a cutter-stay on a sloop, you must add the running backstays too.

cheers,
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 04:20   #55
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
My experience is similar to Kamaloa's. Better pointing with the staysail, and better boatspeed (0.5-0.6 kts). In heavy weather, up to 45 kts or so, I still like to have some of my 110% high cut foresail rolled out, enough that it just overlaps the inner forestay.

I've tried sailing in heavy conditions with deeply reefed main and the just the staysail. Adding the heavily furled foresail adds power to help punch through steep waves. However, the only reason this works for me is that I had foam luff pads sewn in the foresail to keep it flat when roller-furled. Without the pads, the sail was a liability when heavily furled.
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 07:22   #56
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
My experience is similar to Kamaloa's. Better pointing with the staysail, and better boatspeed (0.5-0.6 kts). In heavy weather, up to 45 kts or so, I still like to have some of my 110% high cut foresail rolled out, enough that it just overlaps the inner forestay.

I've tried sailing in heavy conditions with deeply reefed main and the just the staysail. Adding the heavily furled foresail adds power to help punch through steep waves. However, the only reason this works for me is that I had foam luff pads sewn in the foresail to keep it flat when roller-furled. Without the pads, the sail was a liability when heavily furled.
You're a braver man than I. At 45 knots I'm getting ready to heave to. 10 knots more and it's some serious stuff going on.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2009, 03:04   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Boat: Privilege 435, 44 ft
Posts: 6
T-Clewring

I have recently purchased a Privilege 435 and have an inner forestay that grabs hold of the Genoa every time we do a tack. In looking for a solution I came across a company that seemed to have it sorted. I will be fitting it soon and will provide feedback.
T-Clewring, Revolutionising sail to sheet connections.
__________________

__________________
Rory is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cutter

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newbie Issue elcubanito Monohull Sailboats 23 18-03-2008 20:31
Grounding Plate Issue markpj23 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 32 22-02-2008 19:17
Atomic 4 issue DaveK Engines and Propulsion Systems 23 03-09-2006 13:22
Removable Stay(sail) or not to stay... jcmcdowell Monohull Sailboats 8 27-08-2004 15:30



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.