Cutter Stay Issue

[unbusted67]

Guys this is a big help, thanks. I think our Genny is 140% and it does have a very low clew. I think the next sail we get we will have to take that into consideration.

If you don't loose that much efficiency with a high clew why don't regular sloop rigs generally have higher clew on foresails? It seems like the safety factor, being able to see what's ahead of you and all, would outweigh any slight loss of efficiency. I know that most of the work is done at the about 2/3rds of the way up the sail, or am I way off here?

[Hud3]

I like my 110, high-clew foresail (neither genny nor yankee ). It's perfect for the kind of sailing we do--offshore and in the tradewinds. The high clew keeps the foot out of the water, visibility is better, and if I had a bigger sail, I'd probably have it roller-reefed most of the time anyway. The 110 with the staysail gives me a lot of flexibility as far as sail plans in various wind conditions. I bought a cruising spinnaker for light air. The 110 isn't much good off the wind in light air.

p.s. you could get your sail re-cut...

[seacap]

Unbusted,
I would get a second opinion from another Marine architect. Imagine this ... your vessel as a sloop, no inner forestay. Your rig would then look just like a sloop rig. forestay, backstay, Lowers and cap shroud. Those stay up just fine. Many cutters use a forestay release lever to move the stay out of the way when not in use. I have sailed on a few.

Now if your mast is in perfect column, with a the intermediates set up taught, when you remove the inner forestay you may get a little aft bend in your mast....this is BAD! So you want to tune your rig with a slight forward bend with the intermediates (the ones that balance off your inner) set up taught. Then just remove your stay for those light air days and your genoa. For heavy air the inner forestay will add stability to your rig, so I would use it then. But you would also have your genoa reefed a bit an should tack more easily.

Gary

[seacap]

A 140% low cut genoa was orginally intending for racing. Where a vessel had a crew that could change out sails for different wind conditions and points of sail. The decksweeper, as they were refered to were intended for lightish airs on sloops hard on the wind. When the time comes to replace your head sail, get a yankee (about 80%-90% maybe 100% for those light wind California days) and use your staysail with it. You will find that your boat will sail better in a wider range of conditions. Except maybe off the wind. Then get yourself a asymetrical spinnaker as Hud suggested.

Gary

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Unbusted,
What Gary said makes a lot of sense. Of course all stays and shrouds are structural but the inner forestay is meant to hang a sail on. If there is no sail on it then it won't be pulling the mast forward. My personal opinion is that you could very well sail without the inner forestay.
Cutters are designed to use a high cut yankee on the forestay that catches air higher and the foresail can match it in design or be a long footed deck sweeper if you are looking to fill the slot with sail.
ABI makes a Forestay Quick Release Lever such as one of these in this photo so that you can release the forestay quickly and secure back at the mast or just behind your lower fore shroud.
Hope some of this helps.
Regards,
JohnL

[Tempest245]

Originally Posted by Hud3

Some have called it a "Yankee", but seeing as the boat is named The Belle of Virginia, I rejected that appelation.

We "Yankees" have always appreciated a fine Southern Belle...

[cabo_sailor]

In deference to Hud, I'll call it a "Damn Yankee" but that is what has worked best on my cutter. A high clewed 110% headsail. For lighter airs I carry what North Sails calls a graduated G3 cruising spinnaker. 1.5 oz around the edges with .75 oz interior panels. I use the ATN Tacker to keep the foot in a bit and let me sail a tad higher. Before that, no matter what I tried with my old 130% I was likely to be in irons and that discouraged me from sailing.

Have fun,
Rich

[seacap]

Rich, did your run your staysail with it?

[cabo_sailor]

I assume you are asking if I have the staysail up with the spinnaker - no I do not.

[seacap]

Sorry, was asking if you used your stays'l with your 110?

[cabo_sailor]

Oh OK. Yes I do depending on the point of sail and how much wind. You'll have to play with it a bit to learn when it is helpful.

[BobJ]

Getting that genoa around the stay is hard on both the leech of the genoa and the luff of the staysail. Is your staysail on hanks? If so, they would be especially hard on the genoa. I would roll the genoa up part way and then unroll it after the tack. Sails are expensive.

Even better would be making the stay removable. I have to believe this is possible.

[bene505]

On our Beneteau we have a forestay that has a tube of aluminum around it. The tube rolls to allow the genoa to tack easier. If your forestay is really structural, and you don't use it, perhaps you can setup something similar. Note that ours is really far aft (see #7 below), whereas yours is probably much further forward.

[unbusted67]

yup that is correct, ours is a lot farther forward. I think we are going to try to get a smaller headsail maybe a 110% and then balance out the rig with a staysail.

[Hud3]

In my experience, a 110% headsail, roller-furling, luff pads, and a high-cut foot is perfect for a cutter rig. Buy a cruising spinnaker for lighter air sailing, and you've got all the bases covered.