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Old 01-02-2012, 12:01   #16
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

A possible option to extend length other than multiple shackles, is a length of stainless steel chain. You'd want a quality and size comparable to the load/breaking strength of the wire rope you're using. Basically it would be a shackle at the chainplate, attached to a length of the chain, with a shackle at the upper end or a direct pin to the turnbuckle toggle. Many larger boats with bowsprits use a full chain run for the bobstay so appropriate size/strength chain should be able to take the loads.

FWIW I had a backstay turnbuckle swage begin to fail (the classic "banana shape"). The upper swage connection at the mast was OK. So I cut the wire rope a bit above the failed swage and put in a Sta-Lock mechanical fitting and new turnbuckle. I had a length of the SS chain but didn't use it, a couple of shackles turned out to be long enough to make up the extra length needed.

Regardless the method you use to extend the fitting, be sure it's rated at or above the working/breaking strength of the other elements of the rig, otherwise the extension will be the weak point in your assembly.
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Old 01-02-2012, 13:14   #17
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

Depending on how much sailing and how far from your marina you want, I would:

- review the existing wire and replace whatever is found cracked, etc., I would then buy from the local rigger,

- replace all rigging and keep the sound pieces as replacements, in this case I might be tempted to buy stock wire and StaLocks / Norsemans.

However, Stalocks and Norsemans tend to be so expensive that buying from the rigger is often the better choice.

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Old 01-02-2012, 13:59   #18
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

In the UK the insurers expect the rigging wire to be replaced every 10 years. If not, then regular rigging surveys are required beginning at 10 years. When I got insured there my boat passed a survey but the next year I got a broken strand and so replaced the wire. Rigging doesn't last forever. From your description it seems highly likely that you need new wire, and your description of the turnbuckles should make you very suspicious of them as well. I don't see that replacing the cracked parts is anything like a solution: they are at end of life. With the strong trade winds in your neck of the woods (Grenada) I wouldn't want to go anywhere with the rig you describe.

I certainly sympathize with the costs, but that doesn't change the situation. If it were me, I would order the raw wire (US or European manufacture only - no Asian stuff), Sta-Loks or Norsemen cone terminals (be certain they are the real thing - lots of counterfeits out there) and new turnbuckles of good quality (Navtec is a good source). While swaging is less expensive it requires expensive equipment operated by knowledgeable professionals, or else it is unreliable. Swages commonly split due to corrosion in the tropics. Cone terminals are easy to use, and can be reused in the future (with new cones, of course). I made up the standing rigging for my boat in less than a day with a coil of wire and a bag of Sta-Loks. It just takes money
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Old 01-02-2012, 14:40   #19
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

If what you call "candystripes" are rust weeping out of the cables, or if there are any meathooks (broken strands) in the cables at all, they are overdue for replacement. Cosidering the number of cracks you have been finding in fittings, which usually outlast the cables, I would guess that means the cables are at least as old as the fittings and again, in need of replacement.

If you have a stock production boat with the original rig you can often order rigging from that spec, otherwise the best thing is probably for you to remove the rigging, label each piece with good tape and marker, and have a rigging shop duplicate it for you. Do the labor yourself, but let them make up the cables and fittings. Especially if you might be selling the boat in a year or three. Consider, when the new buyer asks "How old is the rigging? Who made it up? Oh, you did, and it was your first time making up rigging?" The boat probably would sell faster if the buyer had faith in professional work on the rigging.

Also beware of cable from ebay. It is hard to be sure of exactly what and where cable comes from, and there has been "counterfeit" and outright shoddy cable as long as cable has been made. It was even a problem when the Brooklyn Bridge was being built. Still is a problem. Be sure of the seller and source, if you're buying it yourself. Ask the rigger, if you're buying it from a shop.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:33   #20
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

Thank for all the advises and recomendation. I have used many hours thinking, so I will be going for new cables with the swaged fittings. If I start to buy the diy fitting and extensions I will end up 35% of the price on total refit of cables with toggles.
And still have a old rigging....

I will try to measure the cables. 1,5mm stretch for each meter? I need to consult a rigger to be shure.

Another thing is that Im going to ask what svage machine they have, I want to order from a company that have the proper hydraulic big machines. In grenada where I am its to expensive so it will be from the states. Locals here also use rig and big sledgehammer on the swage fittings. Not perfect and almost always banana shape. Real caribbean style.

Another sailboat next to me are going to change the rigging so we will go together and hope for better prices.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:52   #21
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

I second the order your own already assembled and install it yourself option. Even West Marine has this service. Some have said it's a bit high priced. It would be worth a check.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:09   #22
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Working with StaLok or Norseman terminals is a no brainer. Just follow the directions to the letter and your set. Both manufacturers make long studs to take care of just replacing the lower terminals. My first ever experience with Norsemans was rigging our W32. Took two days to do the job because I went really slow initially to be sure that I did it right and the W32 has a bunch of terminals with the bowsprit, boomkin and staysail. Can do a terminal in under 15 minutes after a little practice, now.

Given your experience with the rigging, I'd be thinking about doing a total wire and turnbuckle replacement. Unless the rigging is really old, you shouldn't have all the cracks that are showing, especially after being on the hard. Buy 316 SS 1x19 wire if you can afford it. The corrosion resistance is so much better with 316. I'd be leary about dealing with Ebay suppliers. There is some really crappy SS wire out there so I'd want to know the provenance of the wire that they are selling
Yeah...If you have that many bad turnbuckles etc... I think you need to bite the bullet and replace it all. Of course that is easy for me to say when you are getting low on money, but the rig sounds in pretty bad shape. You need to find out if the terminals at the top are going bad also. If you are truly quitting cruising and returning to the states.... why not the cheap wire?... or...got a good motor? Maybe just start back replacing as little as possible.... of course you may be risking the whole rig.. then how do you sell the boat? St Martin after a hurricane is a good place to find used rigging.... :>)
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Old 03-02-2012, 22:00   #23
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I really like the Hy-Mod mechanical fitting that are imported by Hayn into the US. they are the only ones that I know of that you do not have to replace the cones In if you need to reuse them. This is very handy if you cut the wire a bit too long and need to adjust again. Very easy to put together with a great fit and finish. I was quite surprises to find out that if you buy a new turnbuckle with only the lower toggle, then add the Hy-Mod stud, it is only a few bucks more than buying the turnbuckle with a swage stud and paying to get the swage put in. This is what we will be doing when we refit our standing rigging later this year. Hy-Mod's are available through West Marine and they can ship to your location if you order through their catalog.

I agree with the others in regards that if the swages are cracking the wire is well overdue to be replaced. Spend the extra money and go with type 316 wire. It is the only way to go for your location.
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Old 26-03-2012, 17:23   #24
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I'm replacing my forestay and have
been working with American Rigging Supply.
I'm just about ready to pull the trigger and buy it but I thought I better check and see what everyone felt about them?
Any body ever bought rigging from them what do you think?
Thanks
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Old 26-03-2012, 17:38   #25
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

Replaced all the standing rigging on my boat last year, did all the work myself and reused the original Norseman fittings. Used the highest quality 316 Mil-spec wire from Rigging Only in Fairhaven, Mass. Surprisingly easy and cost effective, a little over $800.00. Oh yeah and I know the job was done correctly.

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Old 26-03-2012, 21:57   #26
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

I'd like to add my endorsement for Sailing Services in Miami. I've known the owner, Brooks Jones, for many years. He is an honest man and his shop produces quality work. Being located in Miami, I'm sure he ships to the Caribean all the time.
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Old 26-03-2012, 22:07   #27
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

Has anyone ever used the Quick Attach fittings sold by Suncor Stainless? They seem a lot easier to install than Sta-Lock or Norseman fittings. Quick AttachTM Fitting | Swageless Fittings
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Old 26-03-2012, 22:26   #28
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Quote:
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Has anyone ever used the Quick Attach fittings sold by Suncor Stainless? They seem a lot easier to install than Sta-Lock or Norseman fittings. Quick AttachTM Fitting | Swageless Fittings
Got em on the lifelines, but i don't know that i trust them enough yet for standing rig. Personally the hi-mods i put on the standing rig were eaiser to install
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Old 26-03-2012, 22:28   #29
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

HopCar, Yes I replaced some rigging on a defever trawler last year, worked well and easy !! was of good quailty and as described! Will use again when I need them.
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Old 27-03-2012, 00:39   #30
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Re: Cut the wire and make own standing rigging ?

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Has anyone ever used the Quick Attach fittings sold by Suncor Stainless? They seem a lot easier to install than Sta-Lock or Norseman fittings.
I can't imagine "a lot easier...than Sta-Lok". Sta-Loks are incredibly easy to install, and it only takes a few minutes. That is certainly not a reason to not buy Sta-Loks. I made up the entire rigging for my cutter in an afternoon when I first rigged her. I re-rigged her on the IOW (new cones of course) and again it went quickly. I can't speak to the Suncor fittings, but the Sta-Loks have been flawless for 32 years on Carina.
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