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Old 19-02-2015, 07:21   #16
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

When I was shopping for a new main, I found Neil Pryde's website very informative. They have a "Tradewinds Specification" for cruising sails, and their website has drawings giving details of the luff, leech, battens, etc. It shows where fabric is reinforced, and how. There are some very good ideas here.

When I purchased our new main, I took a hardcopy of these sheets to our local sailmaker and asked that he incorporate this into the construction. I did not purchase a Neil Pryde sail, but used C&C sails which is local to our area. I am very happy with the results.

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Old 19-02-2015, 07:58   #17
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Performance?

I think the original post about about a "cruising" sail.

While the battens might give you a few more seconds per mile, the battens are often a source of damage to the sail ... something that could effect performance in terms of longevity.

I'm not about to go back searching for a number of sources on this issue(advantages of using no battens on a "cruising", sailboat), but you can ...

As far as the noodles and other stuff ... that's just open pondering that if such a thing could suffice and further, not be a potential source of damage to the sail ... then ... what the heck!
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Old 19-02-2015, 08:17   #18
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Mark - can you explain this:
Quote:
Consider no headboard at all - particularly if you go with the Tides track.
I had the Tides system on the old cat and it really made a huge difference and strongly considering to add to the "new" cat.
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Old 19-02-2015, 08:21   #19
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

I love the Tides system. I said to consider not having a headboard, and going with a simple cringle, because there really isn't a need for a headboard on a cruising boat.

As for the combination of headboard and Tides, I recommended against the headboard with the Tides because they have had a lot of problems when the headboard loads up and twists inside the track - popping it right out of the track and sometimes doing damage. This is particularly a problem when reefed.

Tides make special slides for headboards now, and provides more of them in that area, but this just makes the stack much taller when down. It is simpler, and better, to just not use a headboard.

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Old 19-02-2015, 08:50   #20
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

A good cut and made out of decent cloth are the important bits.

I've just taken delivery of a new mainsail, this is on it's second outing.



Tri-radial cut and made from Hydranet. The two full length and three short batten arrangement works well and no need for a special track. Blocks for the first two reefs makes life a bit easier. All lines are handled at the mast.

A useful "racing extra" is an over the top leachline.
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Old 20-02-2015, 06:34   #21
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

I have a 40ft cat with Harken cars and track. Here is the list I gave my sailmaker for our new mainsail:

Tri-radial cut
Dimension-Polyant Pro Radial sailcloth 434PR
6 full length battens with web chafe protection on both sides of pocket and no Velcro on pocket ends
3 reef points at 2.5 meters, 5 meters and 8 meters approximately above clew
3 re-enforcing web straps on clew and tack.
Multiple parallel 3 step zigzag stitches on all seams including panels and sections
UV resistant thread
Overhead leech line
Flutter protection on full length of leech
Loose footed with foot line
Pockets for leech and foot line ends
3 reef points at 2.5 meters, 5 meters and 8 meters approximately above clew
Dog bones on all reef clews

We also gave him our old main to see what had happened to it. The sail is being built now.

You might also consider Gore Tenara thread.
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Old 20-02-2015, 06:52   #22
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Holy BuhJeezuhs...

How come everybody is ignoring the most important aspect???

LOGO!!! SHEESH!!!

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Old 20-02-2015, 06:54   #23
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Dang... I shoulda done the concept artwork on a Cabo...
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Old 20-02-2015, 09:30   #24
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Wow such an, ahhhh, interesting bunch of comments. I particularlylike the cunningham lecture directed at kestrel who is a kiwi sailmaker withmuch racing and blue water cruising experience. Some of it is technicallycorrect, some isn’t -and it’s all so out of context for the OP. Seriously, howmany cruisers out there without a cunningham are “coming up head to windconstantly, & readjusting main halyard tension”?

To the OP:
1. Reefs – you’re the best judge of quantity and height. Just besure to measure (or have sailmaker) the old sail as relative measure of what you want - and give consideration if using fixed reef positions on the boom.
2. Cunningham – my lowly sailmaker view is that you don’t need a cunninghamunless, perhaps, if you have a polyester (stretchy) main halyard and expectmuch upwind work – and if you do, replace the main halyard with Vectrandoublebraid and skip the cunningham!
3. Full battens – Pros and cons – I don’t see a clear winnerbetween all full (4 on your size main) or 2 full and 2 mid length parallelbattens. Any battens will, and short more than full length, will catch on lazyjacks. This is easily solved by having your mainsail up on long passages totropical destinations – they don’t catch on lazyjacks then. If thinking of nobattens, well, you give up considerable sail area and have nothing to dampenthe sail when flogging. I don’t think it makes sense, but either way, I’d passon “swim noodle” battens
4. Tides Strong track is a nice system at reasonable price – and theirfull batten hardware works well also.
5. Headboard - I agree with the comment of no headboard. Theheadboard on a cruising main offers no benefit and can cause twisting thatdamages the track system. Instead, a round ring webbed onto the sail will servevery well.
6. High modulus cloth (presumably Dacron) – yes!
7. Not sure what heavy duty tell tales are – but perhaps the swimnoodles would work for this?
8. Chafe protection – yes, doing on spreaders is more effectivethan on sail. Do consider webbing chafe protection sewn over batten pockets (ifyou go with full battens).
9. Loosefoot
10. Low friction rings lashed 6 inches from leech reef rings –doesn’treduce friction, but it does give room for the bunched up sail when reefed making hte process easier.
11. Skip the intermediate reef point (called reef diamondsor other names) between reefs. Lazy jacks contain the sail just fine. I’verepaired to many mains where people forget to undo the intermediate tie downand the sail ripped when they shook out the reef.
12. Leech line – if the clew is hard to reach, make it over thehead. Either way, don’t use plastic cleats.
13. Luff hardware should be webbed on, not plastic or metalshackles. Slides should be strong (and certainly metal above reefs and at headboard).
14. Dog ears/dog bones or whatever you call them (luff reef strop)– measure for each reef point to get the length correct.
15. As HappyMdRSailor says – don’t forget a prominate logo!
There are many more details, but all subtler and your sailmaker should address these.
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Old 20-02-2015, 21:20   #25
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Holy BuhJeezuhs...

How come everybody is ignoring the most important aspect???

LOGO!!! SHEESH!!!

like!
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Old 20-02-2015, 21:29   #26
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Quote:
Originally Posted by svTOTEM View Post
10. Low friction rings lashed 6 inches from leech reef rings –doesn’treduce friction, but it does give room for the bunched up sail when reefed making hte process easier.
I do not understand what you mean. On our current sail we reefing cringles at the leech and the luff and a series of reefing points for the sail ties in between.
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Old 20-02-2015, 21:53   #27
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Here you can see the light through my sails which shows the full battens and the chafing pads for the spreaders -at each reefing point-. We use an Antal track and slides which is also relatively cheap and simple.

These sails are also HydraNet material and radial cut.

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Old 21-02-2015, 01:51   #28
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

zboss - I recommend eliminating those sail tie down points - #11 on my list -if you have lazy jacks.


As for #10 - Lookup "low friction rings" if not familiar. On each of the leech reef rings (or leach cringle as you call it), lash a low friction ring to the leach cringle, with 6" gap - so the low friction ring dangles from the leech reef cringle. Then run the leech reef line through the low friction ring.


I'll post a photo at some point (thought I had pics of it from our just completed passage to Sri Lanka, but my mainsail pics are to grainy from low light).
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Old 21-02-2015, 05:25   #29
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

Actually tides have very specific instructions for sail designers as to slide spacing. I presume this is due to the track being plastic as opposed to alloy. There is no way around the large stack height with tides track system unless you ignore what tides tell you.

As to the cunningham, maybe you should go take so photos of sail shape on a stiff masthead rig cruising yacht with cunningham on and off upwind. Then computer analyze them, it'll be a learning experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
A Cunningham is FAR more than just a "Racer's Toy". Unless you're REALLY into coming up head to wind constantly, & re-adjusting the main halyard tension.
It's a great/the best tool for draft control, & subsequently sail shape on the main. So, up until you reef, it's one which is in constant use as the wind speed & angle changes. And can even be used to avoid needing that reef, if conditions are right on the edge of going back & forth between needing one & not (by cranking it on tight, & blading out the sail). Also, it can be used to flatten the sail out it's super light.
Wind don't like making sharp turns when it's moving slow.

Plus, given that it's the primary tool for draft control, when used properly, it can add a good bit of speed, as well as keeping you from sailing on your ear. And unlike the halyard being used for this purpose, it doesn't require you to either come up close to head to wind, or to full on flog the main (luffing hard) so that you can tune the halyard. And the bigger the boat, the more this is true/the more useful it is.

Basically it lets you tune your main (especially when used with other trim controls) from an A-cup to a C/D-cup & back, just by pulling on this one control line.

As to stack height, & what track system you choose, such is governed more by prudent choices of the type & placement of the various kinds of sliders, than it is by who makes them. Especially as, generally speaking, those from Harken & other heavy duty/pricey slides, tend to be taller, individually, than those by Tides.
So, work with your sailmaker to place the right kinds of slides intelligently to cope with the differing loads in different sections of your main. That'll make the biggest difference in minimizing stack height.

When I'm putting together a fittings plan for a main, for me, or someone else, the easiest way is to pull out the sketch pad. And start by adding in the reefs, & their necessitated mast hardware. And also including tack & clew, rings/blocks.
From there, you can optimize (full, & 3/4 length) batten placement, & the required mast/track hardware for them.
Followed by general attachment points, evenly spread out so as not to create stress points in the sail/cloth. Which lets you minimize how many of them which you need.
- Ah, & it's vital too, when doing this, to have a listing of the sizes of the various slider types on hand when doing your sketching & math.

Basically, more, & beefier/longer slides in higher load areas, such as reef points & batten cars, & fewer, smaller ones where there aren't any heavy lead concentrations in the sail.
By going this way, as opposed to sticking to a semi-generic formula, you can cut the stack height by 1/3 or more.
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Old 21-02-2015, 05:47   #30
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Re: Cruising Sail Features

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like!
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