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Old 25-02-2012, 11:06   #31
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Re: Cruising Chute

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Hi Bill -- Nice to meet you last month in Rio Dulce. Did you get your boat back in the water?
Sorry, I'm not Bill, but I am on the Rio.
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Old 25-02-2012, 11:12   #32
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Re: Cruising Chute

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Sorry, I'm not Bill, but I am on the Rio.
Darn. I'm awful with names. I was down with Chip/Anode on the Hatteras.
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Old 25-02-2012, 15:33   #33
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Re: Cruising Chute

With plans I meant UK to med, med to carib, carib to Marquesas then to Australia, no im not going the red sea route, id rather go with the wind than fight it!

I'm more thinking, how often would I use the sail? And yeah us Scottish are known to be tight with money, but we'll buy you a beer no probs just dont like wasting on things that might not get used much but be nice to have , if you know what i mean!
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Old 25-02-2012, 17:46   #34
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Re: Cruising Chute

Occured to me that since you are Scottish - just stay home and do the Malt Tour. You won't even remember if you went cruising.
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Old 25-02-2012, 18:34   #35
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Re: Cruising Chute

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With plans I meant UK to med, med to carib, carib to Marquesas then to Australia, no im not going the red sea route, id rather go with the wind than fight it!

I'm more thinking, how often would I use the sail? And yeah us Scottish are known to be tight with money, but we'll buy you a beer no probs just dont like wasting on things that might not get used much but be nice to have , if you know what i mean!
Most cruising authors talk about the prevalence of light to moderate winds.

I expect you will use a light wind sail quite a bit.
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Old 25-02-2012, 21:37   #36
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Re: Cruising Chute

I have used Code 0s on furlers, gennakers, and end-for-end and dip pole spinnakers.

For cruising, a gennaker in a sock is very easy to sail with two people. The cut will determine the wind angle range. I have used them from 60 degree off the wind to DDW, wing on wing in flat seas.

I am not a fan of furling spinnakers. Full blown spinnakers can be a lot of work and require an experienced crew.

Look for a used gennaker in a proper sock with a cone. Use a tack strap for better control. Lead the tack line back to the cockpit. Oversheet it slightly to make prevent collapsing. Sail with the main up. Take it down just before you feel uncomfortable (as the wind starts to build). Carry sail repair tape (adhesive rip stop nylon). Have fun.
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Old 25-02-2012, 21:44   #37
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Re: Cruising Chute

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I'm seriously thinking it may be much cheaper just buying extra jerry cans and fuel for the doldrum moments
But where's the fun in that?
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Old 26-02-2012, 03:32   #38
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Re: Cruising Chute

well i don't have an unlimited budget! have to do that which makes the most economical sense!
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Old 26-02-2012, 07:52   #39
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Re: Cruising Chute

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Look for a used gennaker in a proper sock with a cone. Use a tack strap for better control. Lead the tack line back to the cockpit. Oversheet it slightly to make prevent collapsing. Sail with the main up. Take it down just before you feel uncomfortable (as the wind starts to build). Carry sail repair tape (adhesive rip stop nylon). Have fun.
I mostly agree with jackdale but not completely. I'm not a fan of tack straps. Proper tuning of the tack line will get rotation of the sail to windward and increase projected area; the tack strap prevents that.

If you sail deep you may find the main blankets the chute -- I regularly sail with two reefs in the main to keep the chute full (or just pole the tack out to windward).

For your offshore plans get a heavy cloth in the chute. The sail will stay full better in waves instead of collapsing as the bow comes up.
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Old 26-02-2012, 10:23   #40
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Re: Cruising Chute

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Eastern Caribbean and US East Coast the squalls seem to be greatest on summer afternoons. I found that pattern consistent across the Atlantic. The thunderstorms on the other hand just go on and on.
In the Pacific tradewinds the squalls definitely pick up after sunset, and each subsequent one tends to be stronger until just before sunrise. This is because of the relative temperature between the water and the air. In the early AM hours the air is coldest, while the water remains warm -- perfect squall-breeding conditions.

Note, these are not frontal squalls, but tradewind squalls. When we are north of the tradewinds, and in cooler water, the squall behavior is completely different.

When VALIS is racing, we often use the symmetrical spinnaker. Otherwise I prefer to keep things comfortable and drama-free, and instead pole out twin genoas or run wing and wing. I've got an asym, but haven't used it in years. It's a poor deep-downwind sail. It works well if the wind is closer to the beam.
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Old 26-02-2012, 11:18   #41
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Re: Cruising Chute

The chute wins big for me.
I bought a used 3/4 oz Asym w/snuffer for my 34' (10 meter), fin keel, 11,000 pound (5000kg.) sloop. It'll work from 90' until the main blankets it at about 150' +/- off the wind. I bought a 3/4 oz because it's HUGE and I don't even want to think about flying it in anything over 10 knots of breeze. The chute was lightly used when I got it (had been up only once), came from a good domestic sailmaker, and I paid the PO $1,000 for it. Great deal for me and he wanted out of it. When I'm tempted to turn the engine on 'cause of light air, I slap myself and remind me that it's a sailboat. Then I walk the Asym bag forward, run the tack line (which goes through a hole in the bottom of the bag...an old spinnaker turtle) through a block mounted in front of the forestay, pop the bag open, pull out and lead the sheets to snatch blocks mounted way back on the slotted aluminum toerail and hook the head to the halyard. Crew (or me if alone) hauls the halyard up then I unsnuff the snuffer (takes about a half minute) while crew (or me) trims the sheet. To gybe I ease the tack line a couple feet, throw off the old sheet and trim the new sheet. Never had a hang-up, takes about five minutes working at cruising speed to set it up and the snuffer has performed flawlessly in getting it down.
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Old 26-02-2012, 12:30   #42
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Re: Cruising Chute

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well i don't have an unlimited budget! have to do that which makes the most economical sense!

If we only did what made economical sense we would put our boats on blocks and get a job.

You certainly don't need new. You can get in with used for not too much. If you don't, you will think 'what-if' every time the conditions present the opportunity. Lots of links and suggestions above. You know you need the new toy.
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Old 26-02-2012, 15:04   #43
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Re: Cruising Chute

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well i don't have an unlimited budget! have to do that which makes the most economical sense!
The followup question that occurs to me here is whether you wish to take a short to medium term cash-flow decision in order to get the boat to Australia in which case get the jerry cans MAY be the cheaper option or are you wanting to make the medium to long term budget decision in which case get an asymmetrical, a cruising chute or a drifter.

In either case you want to look around more for a cheaper supplier, $5k+ for your size boat is not appropriate.

Going the jerry can route I would assume that you will motor 15-25% of the distance. You will need to need to ask around to find out what fuel prices are at various places along the way. Figure you might get 10nm/gal.

There will be added engine maintenance due the greater amount of motoring. Figure an oil change (oil & filter) every 400nm or so (assuming a 100hr oil change interval) motoring or every 2000nm net miles (20% motoring). Figure to replace belts and fuel filters at least once, even if only just before leaving, depending on the reccomended intervals you may need to do them again part way. figure out what the lube replacement rate is for the transmission.

As a rough guess for motoring in light air:

Jerry Can Cost = 20% * dist * $/gal / 10nm/gal + cost of jerry cans + cost of 1 baja filter + 2 fuel filters (or filter sets) + 2 belt sets + 2 tranny lubes + [(distance/2000nm) * (oil filter + 5liters oil)]


With a light air sail and the will power to stick with it figure that you are going to motor 2-5% of the distance. Assume an oil change every 10-12k nm. For a 12-13k nm voyage I would assume 2 changes unless you take more than a year in which case you should be changing the oil every 6mo regardless of engine usage. Figure that you will need one less change of most filters and belts than if you went the jerry can route.

So the calculation becomes:
Light Air Sail cost = sail cost + extra rigging costs (sheets and maybe snatch blocks) + [3.5% * dist * $/gal / 10nm/gal] + cost of 1 baja filter + fuel filter (or filter set) + belt set + 1 tranny lube + 2*(oil filter + 5liters oil) - residual value of the light air sail.
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