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westwinds · 15-11-2012, 20:01

Here is a place that sells used sails in southern California that I found using a search engine: MINNEY'S YACHT SURPLUS - WE MAKE BOATING AFFORDABLE

K_V_B · 15-11-2012, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by propellanttech

I'm a firm believer in the "made in, sweat by, sewn by, fabricated by, has children in, father lived in, the good ole USA"

This is not to knock the sail makers who use offshore lofts. This isn't about quality for me. It's about putting back into our economy. I like the idea of employing my neighbors.

You don't mind putting those neighbors of yours that work in export out of a job apparently... Import is paid with export. When your country imports less, it will also export less.

Weyalan · 18-11-2012, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B

You don't mind putting those neighbors of yours that work in export out of a job apparently... Import is paid with export. When your country imports less, it will also export less.

I don't really "get" this argument at all (but I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, so humor me). If I am going to spend, say $10k on a new sail, why is it not better to spend that $10k in the local economy? I make a point of trying to spend my hard earned as locally as is realistically practical and I've yet to hear a cogent argument to the contrary.

propellanttech · 18-11-2012, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B

You don't mind putting those neighbors of yours that work in export out of a job apparently... Import is paid with export. When your country imports less, it will also export less.

Evidently you don't understand the US situation on imports.

Our import to export ratio is about 6:1. So how am I hurting our exports?

We do not have balanced import to export ratios evidently like your country.

James L

K_V_B · 18-11-2012, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weyalan

I don't really "get" this argument at all (but I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, so humor me). If I am going to spend, say $10k on a new sail, why is it not better to spend that $10k in the local economy? I make a point of trying to spend my hard earned as locally as is realistically practical and I've yet to hear a cogent argument to the contrary.

Because if you spend $10k in some other country someone in that other country will end with $10k which he will spend in your country.
Trade goes both ways. Imagine what would happen if everyone only bought local. All those people making stuff for export would lose their jobs...

It's popular misconception that buying local saves local jobs at the expense of foreign jobs. It doesn't. You save some local jobs, but at the expense of other local jobs.

propellanttech · 18-11-2012, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Because if you spend $10k in some other country someone in that other country will end with $10k which he will spend in your country.
Trade goes both ways. Imagine what would happen if everyone only bought local. All those people making stuff for export would lose their jobs...

It's popular misconception that buying local saves local jobs at the expense of foreign jobs. It doesn't. You save some local jobs, but at the expense of other local jobs.

That is the most infantile thing I've ever hear......let me explain why.

You don't realize that 80% of the imports in the US are Chinese. Now, most of our exports are not to China, in fact I think the export to China is around 15%.

That would take the Chinese buying our products at 533% of the price of their products, for the trade to be even.

If you look at the economics of China, that is never going to happen due to simple economics. They couldn't afford to buy our products at that rate.

We are not talking of trade to other countries. You haven't a clue of how bad our import imbalance is here in the US.

Before you start talking about the import/export equalities in the US, you may need to do some research.

James L

K_V_B · 18-11-2012, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by propellanttech

Evidently you don't understand the US situation on imports.

Our import to export ratio is about 6:1. So how am I hurting our exports?

We do not have balanced import to export ratios evidently like your country.

James L

If that is really the import/export rate (I seriously doubt it) than you are basically getting a lot for free. So what is the problem?

Anyway. Other people, more knowledgeable than me can explain this better:
http://econlib.org/library/Columns/y...licklocal.html
http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/0...f-buy-american
We don't need to discuss them here...

If China starts building yachts of a good quality, at lower prices then Hanse & co I will certainly consider them.

propellanttech · 18-11-2012, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B

If that is really the import/export rate (I seriously doubt it) than you are basically getting a lot for free. So what is the problem?

Anyway. Other people, more knowledgeable than me can explain this better:
Karen Selick, The Buy-Locally-Owned Fallacy | Library of Economics and Liberty
The Stupidity of "Buy American" - Reason.com
We don't need to discuss them here...

If China starts building yachts of a good quality, at lower prices then Hanse & co I will certainly consider them.

I tell you what. When your largest retailer in your country, is selling your country out (this store has the 22nd largest economy in the world....yes in the world) talk to me then. This store buys 82% of everything that comes out of China. I didn't say every item.

One of those articles is written by a lawyer in Canada, which has no bearing here. The other is a spokesman on a news channel that isn't even a member of the Associated Press. Fox is an entertainment channel, and has no purpose to tell the truth, they are in business for entertainment.

You need to read reports for yourself, not rely on what some talking head says.

Like I said, you need to do some research before you start talking about something I do know about.

James L

**Hudson Force** · 18-11-2012, 14:57

Speaking of sails, which remains the relevant topic, I have proposed that there is a value in buying used; however, I should add that I purchased my Roller furling genoa, main & mizzen from Mack Sails. My very well performing used sails are of great quality, but less critical in exacting dimensions for my use. These are a working jib for my club foot, a cruising chute and, and a mizzen staysail.

propellanttech · 18-11-2012, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptForce

Speaking of sails, which remains the relevant topic, I have proposed that there is a value in buying used; however, I should add that I purchased my Roller furling genoa, main & mizzen from Mack Sails. My very well performing used sails are of great quality, but less critical in exacting dimensions for my use. These are a working jib for my club foot, a cruising chute and, and a mizzen staysail.

Buying used sails is a good way to save some "kitty", and re-purpose something that otherwise would go to waste. Plus, there are times you can find a sail which will fit your rig without modification.

Good avenue, if you can find something that will work, in a reasonable price.

James L

K_V_B · 18-11-2012, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by propellanttech

I tell you what. When your largest retailer in your country, is selling your country out (this store has the 22nd largest economy in the world....yes in the world) talk to me then. This store buys 82% of everything that comes out of China. I didn't say every item.

One of those articles is written by a lawyer in Canada, which has no bearing here. The other is a spokesman on a news channel that isn't even a member of the Associated Press. Fox is an entertainment channel, and has no purpose to tell the truth, they are in business for entertainment.

You need to read reports for yourself, not rely on what some talking head says.

Like I said, you need to do some research before you start talking about something I do know about.

James L

The fact that you state things like "this store is the 22nd largest economy in the world" shows that it is pointless you and I discuss economics.
Ill end ths here. This is a sailing forum after all...

sailorboy1 · 18-11-2012, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by propellanttech

Buying used sails is a good way to save some "kitty",

Maybe. I've been wanting a light wind upwind head and went looking for a used one the other day. The nearest ones could find that weren't really the right size for me were almost the price of the new sails I have quotes for.

But I can hope I guess.

**Hudson Force** · 18-11-2012, 17:30

I bought this cruising chute with a 33.5' foot for $600,- 'suits me well and far,,,far...less than a new price.

propellanttech · 18-11-2012, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B

The fact that you state things like "this store is the 22nd largest economy in the world" shows that it is pointless you and I discuss economics.
Ill end ths here. This is a sailing forum after all...

Shows your naivety, but that is to be expected for someone who doesn't live here.

James L