Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-11-2012, 19:07   #61
Registered User
 
propellanttech's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: B'ham, Al
Posts: 356
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Maybe. I've been wanting a light wind upwind head and went looking for a used one the other day. The nearest ones could find that weren't really the right size for me were almost the price of the new sails I have quotes for.

But I can hope I guess.
I'm really surprised, but due to you being in the "sweet spot" for cruising boats, I'm sure it's either feast or famine.

James L
__________________

__________________
There is no cure for stupid, only elimination!
propellanttech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2012, 20:47   #62
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

About buying locally, a dollar spent here is really 3.5 dollars spent because the local sail maker will also spend your money locally and the person he buys from also will spent that money etc.
__________________

__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2012, 21:15   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by propellanttech

Shows your naivety, but that is to be expected for someone who doesn't live here.

James L
You have stated three "facts" of which I know that each one is false. And I'm the naive one?
__________________
K_V_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2012, 21:19   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by westwinds
About buying locally, a dollar spent here is really 3.5 dollars spent because the local sail maker will also spend your money locally and the person he buys from also will spent that money etc.
Same when buying from a Chinese sailmaker who then spends his dollars buying something in (or from) the US.

If you buy your sails from a guy you know because you Ike him and want to do him a favor, that is fine with me. But don't pretend that you are doing the country a favor buying American. Just think what would happen if everybody did this...
__________________
K_V_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2012, 22:33   #65
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Boat: Able 50
Posts: 3,057
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by propellanttech View Post
Evidently you don't understand the US situation on imports.

Our import to export ratio is about 6:1. So how am I hurting our exports?

We do not have balanced import to export ratios evidently like your country.

James L
Huh ?

There is no prescribed or official way to measure balance of trade because of all the variables. Keeping things in round numbers the US balance of trade over the past three years has been averaging close to - 20%. In September 2012 ( the most recent month published by the US Census Bureau ) the exact figure for combined goods and services was - 18.16%.

6:1 ? Not quite.
__________________
savoir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2012, 23:14   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Boat: Able 50
Posts: 3,057
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by propellanttech View Post
That is the most infantile thing I've ever hear......let me explain why.

You don't realize that 80% of the imports in the US are Chinese. Now, most of our exports are not to China, in fact I think the export to China is around 15%.

That would take the Chinese buying our products at 533% of the price of their products, for the trade to be even.

If you look at the economics of China, that is never going to happen due to simple economics. They couldn't afford to buy our products at that rate.

We are not talking of trade to other countries. You haven't a clue of how bad our import imbalance is here in the US.

Before you start talking about the import/export equalities in the US, you may need to do some research.

James L
Where does this lot come from ?

If you isolate the variables calendar year to September 30 2012, China, goods - then the balance of trade with USA is - 25.6%. If you want to compare the China market with the entire market for imports of goods then imports from China over the same period represents 18%.

Export of goods only to China over the same period represents 6.7% of the total US market for export of goods. ( All figures courtesy of US Census Bureau )

You aren't even almost close.
__________________
savoir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 06:11   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Annapolis
Boat: S2 11.0
Posts: 97
Hey thanks for the continued info about buying replacement sails. Didn't realize this thread would detour into a debate about global trade. I will say this, and I speak for many Americans: I try not to buy from China. They are notorious for poor quality, they steal intellectual property, and to say Chinese dollars return to the US in equal or greater amounts displays a lack of knowledge of America's trade status. When I inject my dollars into the American economy there's a very high probability those dollars propagate here at home, helping protect my job as well as those of my family and friends and fellow citizens. I don't care about protecting jobs in other countries. It's more a matter of quality and supporting businesses that "play fair".

However, I also won't buy American if it's cheaply made. Companies have to offer superior quality, especially if their prices are higher. At the end of the day, I base my purchase on getting lasting quality. Not everyone bases their decision on this. If it can be proven the Chinese deliver better quality for less money I will consider their products, but the price/quality differences have to be significant for me where China is involved.
__________________
FruiVita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 06:19   #68
Registered User
 
propellanttech's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: B'ham, Al
Posts: 356
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Where does this lot come from ?

If you isolate the variables calendar year to September 30 2012, China, goods - then the balance of trade with USA is - 25.6%. If you want to compare the China market with the entire market for imports of goods then imports from China over the same period represents 18%.

Export of goods only to China over the same period represents 6.7% of the total US market for export of goods. ( All figures courtesy of US Census Bureau )

You aren't even almost close.
You need to check your figures again:

From the US Census Bureau from January 2012:

Import Value from China = $34,245.88
Export Value to China = $8,371.95

That is a 4 to 1 ratio. Which is only one month of the year.

What you don't realize our biggest export is the metals which are resold to the US after re-purposing.

So where do you think all of the US money is going, out. Trade is not balanced in the US.

James L
__________________
There is no cure for stupid, only elimination!
propellanttech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 06:22   #69
Registered User
 
propellanttech's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: B'ham, Al
Posts: 356
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Anyone else who thinks they know more about trade, go for it. Make a balanced trade for the US.

I've said all that is going to be said.

If you say anything more you me, you are just trying to get the last word, which makes you feel correct, which isn't the case.

James L
__________________
There is no cure for stupid, only elimination!
propellanttech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 06:49   #70
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

[QUOTE=propellanttech;1087827]Buying used sails is a good way to save some "kitty", and re-purpose something that otherwise would go to waste. Plus, there are times you can find a sail which will fit your rig without modification.

Good avenue, if you can find something that will work, in a reasonable price.

James L[/QUOTe

last time i looked for "ONE" used sail on ebay,
i found so many good deals, i ended up with 4 good sails,(one brand new)and a mainsail cover,and spent about six times more than i intended to!!!!! and blew the kitty
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 06:57   #71
Registered User
 
propellanttech's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: B'ham, Al
Posts: 356
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post

last time i looked for "ONE" used sail on ebay,
i found so many good deals, i ended up with 4 good sails,(one brand new)and a mainsail cover,and spent about six times more than i intended to!!!!! and blew the kitty
Wow.....I'm sorry. I know I could do that too. That is why I won't look for sails on ebay. Although I know you can get good deals on ebay, I would be scared to get a "tired" sail.

I'm really more of a new guy, or a used sail from a good reputable source.

Well, it is winter (depending on where you are), so you have some time to save more "kitty". Also, you could resell the extras if you decide you don't need them.

James L
__________________
There is no cure for stupid, only elimination!
propellanttech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 09:05   #72
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by islandplanet View Post
Rick,

Maybe you can educate us on why you think US made sails are inherently superior to those made in Asia.
Maybe you can educate us on why you think Asian sails are inherently superior.
A few points I will make is..
1) Lofts like Hood have a much higher quality control, their own looms and make there own cloth. I bought 2 of their sails and the quality was outstanding. The stitching was absolutely perfect. The sails were used all the time by me until I sold it in 2000. Two owners later, the boat is still being well used and sails in great condition. When I received them, I compared the quality to my neighbor import sail and it was clear, small short-cuts were taken on his sail.
2) There is better support at a local loft. Unless its a franchise where a local loft is importing and also is capable of sewing, you're out of luck.
3) Keeping the dollar in this country. Might not sound like a biggy for you but I sleep better knowing I add to our economy and not take away.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 09:20   #73
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
Same when buying from a Chinese sailmaker who then spends his dollars buying something in (or from) the US.

If you buy your sails from a guy you know because you Ike him and want to do him a favor, that is fine with me. But don't pretend that you are doing the country a favor buying American. Just think what would happen if everybody did this...
You're kidding right? Can you back this up that China imports from us even near the amount we send them?
,,,,and what would happen if everyone in the US bought US?...Well first off, we would be at around 4% unemployment rather than almost 9%. Again as pointed out by other members, you don't live here. We saw prosperity in the late 80's, early 90's. Trade has changed. We saw it happen.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 09:54   #74
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by propellanttech View Post
Wow.....I'm sorry. I know I could do that too. That is why I won't look for sails on ebay. Although I know you can get good deals on ebay, I would be scared to get a "tired" sail.

I'm really more of a new guy, or a used sail from a good reputable source.

Well, it is winter (depending on where you are), so you have some time to save more "kitty". Also, you could resell the extras if you decide you don't need them.

James L
i plan on wrapping the sails up in christmas paper.......thats the wife and kids presents sorted
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-2012, 09:58   #75
Registered User
 
propellanttech's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: B'ham, Al
Posts: 356
Re: Cost for replacement sails?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
i plan on wrapping the sails up in christmas paper.......thats the wife and kids presents sorted
Hmmmmm......you let me know how that works out for ya.

If we don't hear anything from you after Christmas, we will assume the worse, and contact your spouse for some possible cheap sails.

James L
__________________

__________________
There is no cure for stupid, only elimination!
propellanttech is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sails

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.