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24-05-2017, 04:35
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#1
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
I began a thread yesterday (see below) regarding my spinnaker pole hoist mechanism. Turns out the issue was three fold, the line was way too tight, line too old and stiff, and the mechanism needs service.
Here's the problem: I need to remove the Antal hoist mechanism, but two of the stainless Allen key bolts going through the mechanism the into the aluminum mast are seized up. If I apply any more force they will break off.
How do I free up the corrosion/oxidation in order to turn the bolts. The other three were tight, but using a little WD40 I was able to remove them. On the two which are seized, so far I've only tried WD40, but it's kinda impossible to get the stuff right down to the base of the bolt where it enters the aluminum mast.
Any suggestions on how to remove the bolts? Note: The black case is Marilon or something similar, but can possibly be anodized aluminun, and the the bolts go part way through a sleeve before entering the mast.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...on-185191.html
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24-05-2017, 04:47
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#2
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,047
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
Try Corrosion-X and a little heat, much, much better than WD40 which is not a penetrating oil.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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24-05-2017, 04:55
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: Mahe 36, Helia 44 Evo, MY 37
Posts: 5,731
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
My vote would be to use PB Blaster. Its amazing how good it works to loosen things up.
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24-05-2017, 04:57
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#4
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
Thanks, I'll take a ride down to the chandlery and see what kind of penetrating oil they have. Then I neet to work on the heat part. All I have onboard is a heat gun, a butane soldering iron, butane lighter and some matches. What would you recommend? I can't get my hands on an electric soldering iron that will work on my 110v boat here in Europe.
How long does the penetrating oil need to do its thing?
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24-05-2017, 05:00
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#5
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,047
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
Use the heat gun but gently. I agree that PB Blaster is a very good product, I just think Corrosion-X is better but either one will likely do the job.
Heat the mast, apply oil and let it sit overnight.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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24-05-2017, 05:04
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#6
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
Won't the heat gun cause the paint to lift off the mast? Maybe if I understood the heat concept. How and what determines if I heat the bolt or the mast? By heating the mast, does this draw in the penetrating oil, or am I trying to expand the hole size by heating the aluminum?
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24-05-2017, 05:11
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#7
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,047
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
Won't the heat gun cause the paint to lift off the mast?
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That's why "little" is underlined.
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If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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24-05-2017, 05:41
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: London
Posts: 18
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
How about using accu drill with the appropriate key size and concrete drilling setting? Give it a little bit of shock persuasion? Usually, when we take apart heavy machinery we use hammer gun, which is essentially a drill but introduces shock vibration to release corroded threads.
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24-05-2017, 05:49
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubu delaMancha
How about using accu drill with the appropriate key size and concrete drilling setting? Give it a little bit of shock persuasion? Usually, when we take apart heavy machinery we use hammer gun, which is essentially a drill but introduces shock vibration to release corroded threads.
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I was going to say get a hammer type of impact driver and use it, both loosen and tighten, idea is to get a little movement and then the penetrating oil can get in.
If nothing works, drill off the head of the bolt and remove the part, this will leave a lot of bolt sticking out that a pair of vise grips can get a hold on.
If you bust it off with a wrench, it may break off flush.
I have removed frozen bolts in the main spar of an aircraft by drilling a small hole all the way through the bolt, a hole all the way through relieved some of the pressure it seems and I was able to get the bolt out.
But definitely go with PB Blaster or better is a mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid, really. It separates and has to be shaken up, I think acetone will penetrate very well and carries some of the transmission fluid with it. But acetone and transmission fluid can be had anywhere there are fiberglass boats and cars, PB Blaster may be hard to find overseas?
If you end up drilling, you will thank whoever chose the internal wrenching bolt
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24-05-2017, 05:53
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
A reportedly top notch penetating oil can be made from a mixture of ATF automatic transmission fluid, & actone. And whichever penetrant you use, try applying it a couple of times a day (minimum) for several consectuive days.
As to heat, you might try using a standard size car battery, & a pair of #10 wires. Just holding the wires on the bolt head for a moment. Though try it first on something unimportant. I've not tried it, but am told it works well.
And if you can find some dry ice, or a CO2 fire extingusher, you can freeze the fasteners & material in efforts to make it contract.
If forced to use a torch to heat them, you might construct a heat shield/heat sink around the part, so as to avoid maiming the surrounding area. No guarantees, but it may help. And barring that, there are some heat resistant pastes which can be applied to the delicate bits around that which is being heated. Somewhat akin to the ones used on the spines of japanese swords when they're being heat treated. So that the spine remains cooler than the cutting edge during the process.
Also, before you try to loosen the other bolts, put the others back in & torque them down HARD. It should take a little bit of the load off of the frozen ones, & or force them to move a bit sympathetically. And when you go to work on the frozen ones, try to tighten them a little bit first prior to loosening them. The effect is similar to rocking a vehicle which is stuck in the snow or dirt.
Plus if you don't have an impact wrench (which should help), you can improvise something to allow you to shock load the bolt's head with a hammer blow. Sometimes it'll loosen the seized material enough to allow you to turn the bolt.
The last ditch method is to use a left handed drill bit to get them out. One which is very close in size to the (stripped) bolt head socket. Which if this doesn't work, some folks would try EZ-outs. Though I haven't heard great repors of their working.
Oh, & try Googling removing frozen bolts. You might run across another technique which will work.
EDIT: You could also try building a giant clamp, to compress the unit, & it's cover plate tightly to the mast. One with a hole, or holes in it that would allow you to access & turn the frozen bolts. And that fits around the entire spar & line driver. If, that is, you have plenty of threaded rod, & flat plate metal stock around.
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
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24-05-2017, 05:59
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
Do NOT try an easy out. Reason is when you bust the easy out, which you will, they are as hard and brittle as a file, they are essentially impossible to drill out.
I will never use an easy out on something that I can't take to a machine shop.
Introducing heat through the battery is promising, its often done with a welder. I'd stick the proper sized Allen socket into the bot and hit it with the battery, it may weld to the bolt to some extent, use a socket not an Allen key
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24-05-2017, 06:11
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: South Atlantic
Boat: Ovni 395
Posts: 153
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
I also have currently a problem removing SS bolts from mast - replacing my main halyard winch. I tried WD-40, tried impact driver - so far nothing worked . Was thinking to heat it up
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24-05-2017, 06:14
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
If you can use an impact gun they sometimes loosen up easier
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24-05-2017, 06:15
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#14
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,033
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
hmmm . . . .
Your best bet is welding heat right on the head of the bolts - I usually had a welder weld nuts onto the top of the bolts - that puts the heat exactly where it need to be and gives you something extra to torque. A heat gun is probably going to accomplish nothing except perhaps mess with your paint.
as to penetrating fluids generally Kano Kroil and ATF-Acetone mix score highest in tests (see https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...owdown.350800/ for example). In some tests Kroil scores highest but it can be difficult to get some places (probably like where you are))
Finally 'impact' is more important than 'torque' - you want to hit them with quick shock loads.
I had a lot of experience with this . . . . when you get the bolts out you want to use helicoils (or any of the other types of good threaded inserts) in the mast, and you want to look for anything now that you might ever want to maintain or replace and put helicoils in, so you dont have to repeat this.
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24-05-2017, 06:16
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
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Re: Corrosion Stainless vs Aluminum
Sorry already noted about the impact gun
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