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Old 13-11-2019, 18:26   #1
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Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

I just replaced some standing rigging on my boat. It originally had Dyform 1x19 wire so it was replaced with Compact Stranded 1x19. Not sure who the original manufacturer is of the new wire.

This new wire has a line vertically up the wire. In most cases along the wire it just sort of looks like a mark but the line goes straight up both of the wire pieces I have. In several spots the line is a deeper groove. This groove has developed rust in the 6 months I have had it which is why I noticed it.

When we installed it the groove went unnoticed because it blended in well but the rust that developed was more obvious.

Anyone out there with compact stranded 1x19, can you tell me if you have a similar line or even groove up your wire?

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Old 13-11-2019, 19:47   #2
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

That would most assuredly be a tooling mark, most probably left by a die that the wire was pulled through, its rusting from the iron contamination in the wire left by the die.
Thatís my opinion of course, but what I think your asking is is this enough of a defect for me to be concerned with?
Iíd say probably not, but then Iím not a rigger either.
Did you pay someone to replace the rigging, or did you do it yourself?
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Old 13-11-2019, 21:06   #3
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

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That would most assuredly be a tooling mark, most probably left by a die that the wire was pulled through, its rusting from the iron contamination in the wire left by the die.
Thatís my opinion of course, but what I think your asking is is this enough of a defect for me to be concerned with?
Iíd say probably not, but then Iím not a rigger either.
Did you pay someone to replace the rigging, or did you do it yourself?
I agree it is likely from tooling. I just wanted to find out from others if they saw this in their compact stranded as well or if this is an indicator of lower quality.

I had a company produce the wire and swages then I installed them.

Unfortunately, in a few spots on my new wire there are grooves where this line should be. It is deep enough that the strands are clearly compromised.
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Old 14-11-2019, 14:44   #4
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

I have some compact strand on my boat it has a line in it more of a slight bump out not in
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Old 14-11-2019, 14:45   #5
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

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Originally Posted by B-Baysailer View Post
I have some compact strand on my boat it has a line in it more of a slight bump out not in
Thanks for the reply.
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Old 14-11-2019, 15:12   #6
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

Quote:
Originally Posted by feudalkaos View Post
I agree it is likely from tooling. I just wanted to find out from others if they saw this in their compact stranded as well or if this is an indicator of lower quality.

I had a company produce the wire and swages then I installed them.

Unfortunately, in a few spots on my new wire there are grooves where this line should be. It is deep enough that the strands are clearly compromised.
These grooves would concern me - seems like excellent stress raisers which can't be a good thing - IMO.
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Old 14-11-2019, 15:16   #7
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

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These grooves would concern me - seems like excellent stress raisers which can't be a good thing - IMO.
Thanks for the reply.

I totally agree and have already contacted the maker of the wire. Only one of the wires has deep grooves. The other wire has a line that is clearly an indention but I am not sure it would have a significant impact on strength.

At this point I am just looking for feedback from others to find out if the line (minor indention) as pictured would be concerning or not.
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Old 14-11-2019, 15:27   #8
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

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Originally Posted by feudalkaos View Post
Thanks for the reply.

I totally agree and have already contacted the maker of the wire. Only one of the wires has deep grooves. The other wire has a line that is clearly an indention but I am not sure it would have a significant impact on strength.

At this point I am just looking for feedback from others to find out if the line (minor indention) as pictured would be concerning or not.
I thought the pictured ones were the grooves.

However if the pictured ones are the lines, I think (but don't know) they are deep enough to be concerned. Certainly deep enough to get an expert opinion.
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Old 14-11-2019, 15:29   #9
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

My concern centres around the way SS work hardens any stress raisers, minor or otherwise.
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Old 14-11-2019, 15:55   #10
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

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I thought the pictured ones were the grooves.

However if the pictured ones are the lines, I think (but don't know) they are deep enough to be concerned. Certainly deep enough to get an expert opinion.
That helps. The one pictured is the "normal." The bad spots are much deeper.
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Old 14-11-2019, 18:37   #11
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

I admit I donít know much about wire rope but I do know a bit about stranded wire. That looks to me like a sizing die issue that should never occur.
Making steamed wire the individual wires are on spools in a machine that twists them under a specific strain and then pulled through dies as it gets spoiled. Those secondary does are primarily to ensure the overall size is correct. But during the process and setup the output is supposed to be validated so the overall wire od is correct. So you should never see this is the individual strands are the right size and the twist per foot is correct. The above is based on what I know about electrical wire but the machines are virtually identical.
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Old 14-11-2019, 18:49   #12
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

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Originally Posted by AKA-None View Post
I admit I donít know much about wire rope but I do know a bit about stranded wire. That looks to me like a sizing die issue that should never occur.
Making steamed wire the individual wires are on spools in a machine that twists them under a specific strain and then pulled through dies as it gets spoiled. Those secondary does are primarily to ensure the overall size is correct. But during the process and setup the output is supposed to be validated so the overall wire od is correct. So you should never see this is the individual strands are the right size and the twist per foot is correct. The above is based on what I know about electrical wire but the machines are virtually identical.
I haven't specifically worked with the equipment that makes wire rope but I understand the concept and what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Its hard for me to imagine that any kind of groove no matter how slight would be considered an acceptable manufacturing flaw. Perhaps a mark that has no indentation but not a groove.

Thanks for the feedback.

I have contacted the company that made up the wire (not the wire manufacturer but the rigging company) and they have said that the line is "normal" and "not outside what they normally see." I am pushing them to look further but getting a bad feeling they are trying to take a no responsibility stance.

I have attached an image of the worst area to this to see if anyone has any further feedback. This image is one of 3 spots on one wire that are about this bad. The spot is about 4 inches long and as you can see the strands are compromised. You can also see where rust has developed in the groove. This is after I tried polishing out the rust, it was much worse.

This wire is only 6 months old and has only left the dock for a total of 4 hours.

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Old 14-11-2019, 19:04   #13
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

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Originally Posted by feudalkaos View Post
I haven't specifically worked with the equipment that makes wire rope but I understand the concept and what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Its hard for me to imagine that any kind of groove no matter how slight would be considered an acceptable manufacturing flaw. Perhaps a mark that has no indentation but not a groove.

Thanks for the feedback.

I have contacted the company that made up the wire (not the wire manufacturer but the rigging company) and they have said that the line is "normal" and "not outside what they normally see." I am pushing them to look further but getting a bad feeling they are trying to take a no responsibility stance.

I have attached an image of the worst area to this to see if anyone has any further feedback. This image is one of 3 spots on one wire that are about this bad. The spot is about 4 inches long and as you can see the strands are compromised. You can also see where rust has developed in the groove. This is after I tried polishing out the rust, it was much worse.

This wire is only 6 months old and has only left the dock for a total of 4 hours.


I'm normally a guy that lets a lot slide. Not that. There is considerable damamge to all of the outside wires. That looks like "do it over." The old wire was probably better. That wire is ruined. It isn't a dent, it is a scratch, and there is metal torn out and missing.
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Old 14-11-2019, 19:05   #14
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

No way is that "normal"! Every external strand is significantly compromised by something dragging either in the manufacturing process of compressing the wire, or in handling it as it came off the spool. i'd be asking for replacement, and would not consider sailing with rigging whanged up like that.
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Old 14-11-2019, 19:22   #15
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Re: Compact Stranded 1x19 Wire (Dyform) Groove

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I'm normally a guy that lets a lot slide. Not that. There is considerable damamge to all of the outside wires. That looks like "do it over." The old wire was probably better. That wire is ruined. It isn't a dent, it is a scratch, and there is metal torn out and missing.
that looks like it has been done accidentally with a 1.2 mm stainless cutting disk probably whilst it was on the wire drum and rolled up which would account for each damaged section being spread apart by a few feet/meters
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