Code Zero Furler

[kiapa]

Anyone have any scoop on furling equipment for "free flying" headsails like code zero's. i'm looking for something that can handle 1000+ sq ft headsail. how reliable are these things? who makes the best ones? are all the good ones continuous line furlers? anyone make a single-line version that can handle 3-5k lb load?

[estarzinger]

My zero is that size.

Facnor and Karver make the best furlers. I have a facnor 6000, which is over-sized for the sail but easy to use.

They are bullet proof reliable. Great gear.

Yes all the good ones are single line. Its really necessary because sometimes the zeros can furl really tightly and you need to pull a lot of line to make many turns, and with a drum you would have run out of line.

[kiapa]

estarzinger, thanks for the input. everyone i've talked to recommends the "continuous line" approach for the reasons you state. both the cfx4500 and the KF5 would do the job. i'm still a little in shock by the $2500 to $3k price tags. any idea why no one recommends Harken anymore? they have a model in this size & price range too.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by kiapa

i'm still a little in shock by the $2500 to $3k price tags. any idea why no one recommends Harken anymore?

Yes, the price tags are outrageous for what is a basically simple device with some stock industrial bearings, but these units are mostly sold to high end racers and they don't seem to care about costs.

The harken unit looks to be not as solid a design, more little bits to break, and these furlers tend to get bounced around the bow a little. But I have never used one. I think they struggle in this market because all the development is going on in Europe and while harken has manufacturing in europe (italy), their development seems very US centric.

[Paul Lefebvre]

Kiapa

I picked up a Colligo Marine CN-5 furler at the boat show">Annapolis Boat Show last week. It is rated for 6000 lb SWL and boats to 48ft, so it meets your loading specs but not boat size. You could talk to John Franta to see if it is suitable for your intended use. It looks like a pretty solid piece of engineering. It has a large sheave at 7.5". Practical Sailor gave them a pretty good report in their March 08 issue. Their main complaint was the size of the head furler, which is quite a bit bigger and heavier than Facnor's, their top pick. John Franta explained that it's larger size is due to the large sealed bearing that they use in it. Defender is selling them for $1200.

Evans

I am still deciding what sail(s) to get for this furler. I am hoping to use this in place of an A-chute for downwind work, due to its ease of use for just a couple on board. I see in your discussion on downwind sails that you feel that a code zero would be your first choice if I were only to get one sail. I am wondering how much of a penalty this would be for downwind work, assuming I may also be using a poled out genny at the same time if the conditions are favorable.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Paul Lefebvre

Kiapa
I am still deciding what sail(s) to get for this furler. I am hoping to use this in place of an A-chute for downwind work, due to its ease of use for just a couple on board. I see in your discussion on downwind sails that you feel that a code zero would be your first choice if I were only to get one sail. I am wondering how much of a penalty this would be for downwind work, assuming I may also be using a poled out genny at the same time if the conditions are favorable.

This is a tough question because I don't know what sort of apples and oranges you are considering. On the furler you can fly all sorts of different shape and material sails - from true code zeros with low stretch fabric and flat cut to pretty much full size gennakers in spin cloth and deep shape and wide shoulders. For a-chutes you can be talking about full size mastheads runners in .75oz to 3/4 size chicken chutes in 1.5oz.

But generally speaking I think you will use the furled sail a ton more often than the socked a-chute, and so get more 'net cruising speed' from it just because you will fly it more - a broader range of angles, a broader range of wind, and more unsettled conditions.

The performance will also depend a bit on your boat (slug vs speedster). But again very generally, if you compare an "a-chute" vs a "zero plus poled out genoa", you will find the a-chute will set/fill/pull better in very light air/lumpy sea and you will need to turn up a bit more to keep the zero full. But in other conditions (flat seas or a bit more wind) you will not notice (in a cruising perspective) any big difference in performance (angle or boat speed).

For a cruiser, the whole gain here is to make the thing easy to use, so you use it more often, rather than whacking on the engine. If you get a zero sort of sail make sure you get a nice zippered deck bag. On passages where we expect a lot of light air we keep the bag lashed just in front of the mast so its easy to raise and stow the sail - that saves you having to drag the sail back and forth from the sail locker (or wherever it would stow below).

[Paul Lefebvre]

Evans:

Thanks for the input. The ease of use is why I have decided to go the furler route for my light wind sails. As far as the range of sails to compare for the furler, I am looking at between a code zero and a full gennaker in 1.5 oz cloth. Since the Pearson 424 is not a great light wind boat, I am getting the impression that the gap between not able to keep the code zero flying and turning on the engine anyhow may not be that big.

[Joli]

We considered this option for our assy but were advised by our sailmaker to not go that way. A code 1 is fine but the furlers for assy seem to still have problems. Our assy is in the range of 3,000 sq ft. The sailmaker said they were happy to have a full crew to deal with the big kites when the furlers failed.

Originally Posted by Paul Lefebvre

I am still deciding what sail(s) to get for this furler. I am hoping to use this in place of an A-chute for downwind work, due to its ease of use for just a couple on board. I see in your discussion on downwind sails that you feel that a code zero would be your first choice if I were only to get one sail. I am wondering how much of a penalty this would be for downwind work, assuming I may also be using a poled out genny at the same time if the conditions are favorable.

[Bash]

I'm not certain why you'd want a code zero for cruising. They were designed as a way around a genoa penalty on a fraction rig with non-overlapping headsails because they rate as a spinnaker rather than a genoa. But for cruising it seems that a gennaker would be a far more versatile sail.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Bash

I'm not certain why you'd want a code zero for cruising. They were designed as a way around a genoa penalty on a fraction rig with non-overlapping headsails because they rate as a spinnaker rather than a genoa. But for cruising it seems that a gennaker would be a far more versatile sail.

Bash, they actually started on the French multihulls and single handed racers. There were adapted as 'rule beaters' in the Volvo/IMS days but are much more versitable that that.

Many of us prefer to have smaller sails (105-120) on our headstay furlers, but still the option to easily fly a big sail (without having to change sails in the foil). The zero furlers are terrific for this. Even the single handed racers go this way - picture attached of a modern open 60, with two zero furlers in front of the headstay (end of sprit and bow) and one behind (staysail/storm jib).

We have two sails we can fly on our zero furler - an upwind oriented sail (low stretch and flat cut) and a blast reacher (spinnaker cloth and full cut and higher clew).

[barnakiel]

Facnor. Amazing. Expensive. Quality.

b.

[Jmolan]

This is the furler I have used on my 34' Trimaran. I have 3 different headsails rolled up and bagged now. I use the small Colligo unit. In these shots I have the drifter on the ama bow. Looks wierd, works great!

In the last photo you can see I also eliminated hard shackles and went with "softies". Tons more fun!

[barnakiel]

Cream, if you chuck it overboard please let me know - I will be passing by in my dinghy ;-)

[kiapa]

re: CN5
paul, thanks for the tip. looks like a nice option... at about 1/2 the price. now to see if harken thimbles (#3118) will fit into the jaws of the cn5.