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Old 09-09-2016, 17:23   #1
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Bulkhead Delamination

Hey everyone, this is my first post. I read the forums quite often, but have a question. My wife and I will be purchasing a sailboat soon and have an offer in on one that we like. The question that I have is regarding the rigging, structural integrity of it.

I have pictures attached, but my concern is regarding this leaking chainplate. It seems to have leaked on the bulkhead and I am not aware of the extent of its leak. The bulkhead around the chainplates still feels extremely firm and does not have any normal signs of delamination, but where the leak is dripping too, seems like its had a leak for quite some time.

My question would be, do these pictures reflect a major issue with the structural integrity of the rigging? Or is this something that one should not be overly concerned with.

Thanks!
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Old 09-09-2016, 17:57   #2
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

In my book the pictures ask for undoing the adjacent liners, removing the plates (both sides, if they are a pair), full inspection, repair.

I do not like what I can see.

Not sure what you do with this boat. If you live in a marina this may be a minor issue. But if you sail, it will have to be addressed or you are in for an adventure.

My 2 c.

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Old 09-09-2016, 18:07   #3
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

Thank you for your input. My wife and I plan to sail, not sit in a marina!
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Old 09-09-2016, 19:26   #4
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

I'd say, sadly, that she definitely has structural issues, including bulkhead delamination.
As in the picture with the white stripe on the green bulkhead, you can see the layers in the plywood checking & peeling off, like pages opening up in a book. So the wood is obviously damaged in that area.

Also there will be water migration into the wood much further than is easily visible right now, which has already begun damaging the plywood from the inside. And given a bit of time it'll start to check & peel apart too. Which, from the picture, it's possible to see a little bit of this beginning already, spreading down from the area which is obviously peeling apart.

Fixing something like that can be a major issue. As not only are bulkheads structural for the; hull, deck, & rigging. But the rest of the interior furniture is bonded to them. So that replacing a major bulkhead means disassembling much of the interior, removing the old bulkhead & installing a new one, & then rebuilding the boat's insides. With fiberglass work, carpentry, paint & varnish, electrical wiring, plumbing work, rigging repair, etc. all being required.

The cracking underneath of the chainplate is also worrysome. As it looks as if that section of the bulkhead that's underneath of the Formica (?) is also damaged, since it looks both over compressed, & bent in that area.
Also, the chainplates don't look original, & I wonder if the ones which came on the boat weren't significantly longer, in order to better spread out the rigging loads. Though due to the Formica on one side of the bulkhead, & paneling on the other, you can't tell if the original chainplates weren't longer, via the old bolt patterns in the bulkhead.

Plus I'm wondering what lurks underneath of those cosmetic bulkhead coverings. Could be nothing, could be major trouble. In that a repair of some sort, & unknown quality may have been done to the bulkhead already.

Sorry to sound harsh, but it's better to know now, & also what to look at & for if you pursue this boat further. Much of that inspecting being done via a Surveyor.
Though in the words of Nigel Calder, if there are structural issues with a boat, walk away.
He's a very well known & regarded author who's written many books & articles on boat maintenance & repair. And this book by him would be a good addition to your boat tool kit.
Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual
https://www.amazon.com/Boatowners-Me...s=nigel+calder


PS: boatpoker, who's a member here on CF, is a surveyor. And his home page/website has a lot of good information in what to look for & at in boats, in terms of problems as well as quality construction. http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/
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Old 09-09-2016, 19:29   #5
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

sailaside,

Yup, going to need a chainplate job. In your third pic, see that crack, and also, the delamination at the top. If you show the pics to a couple of boat services, and get loose estimates for the job, you'll get an idea of what having it done professionally would cost, and that then becomes a bargaining chip. You'll probably find that it is a bigger dollar job than you were thinking.

A

PS, great post, Uncivilized
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Old 09-09-2016, 20:04   #6
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

You think these are not the original chain plates but that someone replaced them with new ones in that were shorter why? And they magically made the holes from the longer original ones disappear how?

OP, maybe cruise for sale ads for similar boats to look at interior photos? Doing so might tip you off as to whether this was a common problem and how others may or may not have fixed it. Might even get lucky and find the same boat without this problem.
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Old 09-09-2016, 21:09   #7
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

What kind, model boat is it?
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Old 09-09-2016, 21:15   #8
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

Quote:
Originally Posted by normdeeley View Post
What kind, model boat is it?
Its a 1981 Flying Dutchman 50.
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Old 09-09-2016, 21:16   #9
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

Yes, I have looked at other ads. It seems that others chainplates are similar to the size of these. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
You think these are not the original chain plates but that someone replaced them with new ones in that were shorter why? And they magically made the holes from the longer original ones disappear how?

OP, maybe cruise for sale ads for similar boats to look at interior photos? Doing so might tip you off as to whether this was a common problem and how others may or may not have fixed it. Might even get lucky and find the same boat without this problem.
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Old 09-09-2016, 21:32   #10
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailaside View Post
Its a 1981 Flying Dutchman 50.


Sweet boats! Make sure your surveyor moisture meters that balsa core for you as well.
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Old 09-09-2016, 23:33   #11
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

Just to clarify for you all who may be wondering, the picture with the green cushion is at a camera angle from the top of the bulkhead down, as if you're watching the drip go down into the cabin. The ripples is not on the actual bulkhead where the chainplate is, its where the cushion lays on and is affected by the dripping water! Thanks all for the replies.
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Old 10-09-2016, 00:03   #12
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

Neat boat. I could tell the teak paneling was original to the boat and not some afterthought intended to conceal old holes when someone decided to make chainplates shorter for some unimaginable reason that makes no sense at all.

Yes, there is a problem with the chainplates that affects the structural integrity of the rigging. Rely first on the opinion of a qualified surveyor before a bunch of internet folks who can't see things first hand and are sometimes prone to wild assumptions. The problem can be fixed and if it's the right boat for you it may be worth fixing.

Not that I expect it to be much help but here is an older thread below, might be worth reaching out to the other people for more info.

Good luck!


Tayana Flying Dutchman 50 comments
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Old 10-09-2016, 06:44   #13
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, sailaside.
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:39   #14
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Re: Bulkhead Delamination

I am going through a similar process with a sistership. Survey recommendation was that all chain plates and standing rig be replaced. On mine, this includes a stemhead fitting which is a bitch to reproduce. As a result, instead of sailing her back home, she is on a truck. If you haven't already done so, spend the money on a survey including the rig. If this is original stainless used in Ta-yang yard in the 70s and 80s, it all needs to be replaced. Its inferior quality and prone to rust. This is besides other advice regarding soft deck core teak under teak, or steel or glassed-in fuel or water tanks.
Is this Winterhawk?
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