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Old 05-06-2016, 11:02   #1
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Bowline started with an overhand

We are on the hard at the moment and had a busy week getting the boat ready to splash tomorrow.

The yard is 80% empty, but we happen to be sitting next to a retired Greek commercial captain who is also staying on board whilst preparing to launch. He and I had a fun knot session yesterday, exchanging favourites. Yes, the Zepppelin Bend made an appearance .

He had a unusual way of tying a bowline by starting with an overhand, and with one long fluid motion sweeping the knot and working end around and pushing the end through doubled over with his left hand then pulling the emerging loop with his right thumb.

Not a bunny hole or tree in sight .

I have just had a chance to sit and try to reproduce it. It seems quicker than the lightning method where a bowline is started with a slip knot, particularly given the lightning method often needs a bit of time spent dressing.

Anyone come across this method before?

SWL
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:54   #2
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

"He had a unusual way of tying a bowline by starting with an overhand, and with one long fluid motion sweeping the knot and working end around and pushing the end through doubled over with his left hand then pulling the emerging loop with his right thumb."

From just your description, I am lost. Pics???
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:57   #3
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

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Originally Posted by redsky49 View Post
"He had a unusual way of tying a bowline by starting with an overhand, and with one long fluid motion sweeping the knot and working end around and pushing the end through doubled over with his left hand then pulling the emerging loop with his right thumb."

From just your description, I am lost. Pics???
Give me a sec
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:01   #4
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

It's my favorite way of tying the bowline, and of teaching how to tie it.

Tie an overhand loop...then pull the bitter end to form a loop in the standing part...then take the bitter end behind the standing part and then through the loop.

Tie it this way a half dozen times and you'll never need a rabbit nor a hole nor a tree again.
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:10   #5
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

That's the proper way to tie a bowline. Learnt that when I first went to sea years ago. Never heard of the rabbit thing until I took up recreational sailing.
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:12   #6
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

Yeah, this is a great trick to use to win a beer at the bar. I was taught it a few years ago, but it requires (for me) constant relearning because I don't use it in practice. It doesn't work if you need to tie the bowline around something; only if you need to tie it onto the end of a line.
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:13   #7
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

is it the 4th method shown here "making a bowline from an overhand knot"
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:15   #8
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
It's my favorite way of tying the bowline, and of teaching how to tie it.

Tie an overhand loop...then pull the bitter end to form a loop in the standing part...then take the bitter end behind the standing part and then through the loop.

Tie it this way a half dozen times and you'll never need a rabbit nor a hole nor a tree again.

I just had a play . Pulling the bitter end actually flips the overhand. Yiorgos demostrated tying a loose loop, not a loop around an object, so tugging would not have worked and he had to flip instead.

He said he was taught the technique forty odd years ago while starting out work work on a Greek cruise ship.

SWL
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:16   #9
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

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Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
It doesn't work if you need to tie the bowline around something; only if you need to tie it onto the end of a line.
If it doesn't work for tying around something you're doing it wrong. Works fine anytime you need a bowline .
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:19   #10
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

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is it the 4th method shown here "making a bowline from an overhand knot"
Yes, that's sort of it, but there was no "yanking" as it was a loose knot. The flip and passing through of the working end was one long fluid motion. Was mesmerising to see .
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:28   #11
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
We are on the hard at the moment and had a busy week getting the boat ready to splash tomorrow.

The yard is 80% empty, but we happen to be sitting next to a retired Greek commercial captain who is also staying on board whilst preparing to launch. He and I had a fun knot session yesterday, exchanging favourites. Yes, the Zepppelin Bend made an appearance .

He had a unusual way of tying a bowline by starting with an overhand, and with one long fluid motion sweeping the knot and working end around and pushing the end through doubled over with his left hand then pulling the emerging loop with his right thumb.

Not a bunny hole or tree in sight .

I have just had a chance to sit and try to reproduce it. It seems quicker than the lightning method where a bowline is started with a slip knot, particularly given the lightning method often needs a bit of time spent dressing.

Anyone come across this method before?

SWL
I know 5 ways to tie bowlines. This is one of the 2 that I teach. It is great for attaching a bowline to a clew

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Old 05-06-2016, 12:31   #12
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

That's how I tie it, with practice it can be done in well under one second.
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:35   #13
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

I just looked up the bowline in Ashley and he starts it with an overhand, but not quite the same way as Yiorgos did. With just a little practice it is a very smooth method.

Redsky, I am just loading some photos.

Although I actually prefer the overhand start, for me the rabbit method is so ingrained I could do it in my sleep. I think if speed was of essence I would want to use a method that I was less likely to stumble with.

I wonder when and why the "rabbit and hole" method was adopted? It does seem inferior.

SWL
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:39   #14
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
h.

I wonder when and why the "rabbit and hole" method was adopted?

SWL
I dont know when . . but I believe the "why" is that it can be used with commercial/navy size line (eg very big and often quite stiff - the kind of line you lay on deck and tug the better end around to form the knot). Most of these other methods are more appropriate for rather smaller size lines. Since knot tieing instruction was most formalized in commercial/navy procedures and instructions it became the defacto method.
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:42   #15
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Re: Bowline started with an overhand

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I know 5 ways to tie bowlines. This is one of the 2 that I teach. It is great for attaching a bowline to a clew

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The three techniques I know for a standard bowline are:

The rabbit method (from all 4 directions)
The lightning method
The one handed method

I can add the overhand start now as a forth.

What is the fifth one?

SWL
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