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Old 04-02-2008, 18:50   #1
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Backstay Must Come Down - But How??

Please allow me another rookie post...

Haul out next weekend, yard has a smallish travel lift so I must drop the back stay. Easy enough except for that Navtec hydraulic tensioner and, most importantly, that mounting arrangement for the radars & antennae.

The tricky part is of course getting the radar gimble mount and wiring out of the way. The good news is that there are connectors near the radomes and GPS antennae. The SSB lead must be clamped to the stay above the insulator. The bad news is that there are no connectors / disconnects near the deck.

My main concern lies in the aluminum tube / pole that holds it all up there. It connects to the hydraulic cylinder cover and is about 10ft long from what I can tell.

So I think what I have to do is get up there, disconnect any / all connectors and then feed the wires down through the tube? If I can disconnect the stay at the top of the hydraulic ram then I could just pivot the unit on the chainplate and lay it out of the way. There is enough cable slack where they come out of the deck for this.

Seems to me that there should have been connectors put near the deck so that you could simply remove the clevis and swing the whole stay out of the way?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated...

Here's the whole arrangement:


And a closer look at the Navtec tensioner and extension pole mount. Note that the cables come down inside the pole and then exit at the top of the hydraulic ram.


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Old 04-02-2008, 19:09   #2
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Use a topping lift or main halyard to apply a Prussic hitch to the top of the backstay just below the masthead fitting (so that the line cannot slip past the fitting). While you are working at the masthead have someone make sure that the aft lowers are properly tensioned as you go through this process. On deck someone takes a lot of tension on the halyard so that you can remove the masthead attachment of the backstay. Do everything slowly and be watchful.

When the backstay is free yet under halyard tension place a long line middled over the backstay. Have someone ELSE handle the ends of the middled line, one on each side of the mast (with the person FORWARD of the mast) tensioning the two lines by hand as the other person on deck slacks off the halyard.

The person handling the middled line allows it to slide down the backstay about 15 feet or so, keeping it from sliding down too far by applying more tension as the halyard is slacked off. When the backstay is sufficiently clear of where the travel lift must be to handle the boat safely have the halyard man secure the halyard and have the "middled" man secure the two lines to a bow cleat or some convenient place.

Reverse the procedure when off the lift except the "middled" line can be allowed to slack off and fall to deck.

If I read your hardware correctly you will not have to mess with any of it at all down where all the radar and other hardware is.
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Old 04-02-2008, 19:27   #3
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.. While you are working at the masthead have someone make sure that the aft lowers are properly tensioned as you go through this process....
I assume this is to keep the mast in nearly the same vertical position when the back stay is released. Problem is, my rigging plan has a single chain plate roughly abeam of the mast to which the upper and lower shrouds all connect. So in my case there is nothing to prevent the mast from leaning forward. No aft lower shrouds.

As I think about it - will the shrouds be enough to hold the mast in place? Spreaders of course trail aft so there might be enough pull aft to keep the stick in position?

Rick I understand your point - release at the masthead and avoid the cabling issues. But the more I think about what happens when the backstay is released the more I'm concerned...

Is it no big deal or something to worry about?



Here's the best photo I have of the shroud arrangement...
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Old 04-02-2008, 20:07   #4
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Hi Mark,

No disrespect to Rick , but as you don't sound to experienced in the operation he describes ( it is do able but i wouldn't advise myself without more experienced help) I wouldn't try that way. If you intend to keep the boat and have to do this again, change the wiring this time so as it all disconnectable from the deck level, and then you can pull the clevis pin at the bottom of the backstay next time and every other time and just let the whole lot sag forward. Use the main halyard to aft provide support for the mast before diconnecting the backstay. Just a thought, but if you slacked off the backstay tension without disconnecting it,will it sag enough to accomodate the travel lift.
Hope this helps/makes sense.

Cheers

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Old 04-02-2008, 20:16   #5
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Doesn't the boatyard know what you need to do? If they don't then I would steer clear of that boatyard.
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Old 04-02-2008, 20:38   #6
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Doesn't the boatyard know what you need to do? If they don't then I would steer clear of that boatyard.
Have to agree with David. Another approach. we have hauled many boats and removed the headstay instead of the backstay. Sometimes that is just simpler.
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Old 04-02-2008, 21:40   #7
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just thought i'd add my thoughts as i have the same boat........use your main halyard as a temporary back stay run to your toe rail as a safety. attach your jib halyard to the top of the backstay to take the load of the stay as it is very heavy. without a backstay your stick will not fall over as you are keel stepped and you have swepped back spreaders. life is short and your stick might never come down again, so leave the wiring where it is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.(my dads favorite expression) happy haul out, cheers from Canada
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:12   #8
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Hi Mark,

No disrespect to Rick , but as you don't sound to experienced in the operation he describes ( it is do able but i wouldn't advise myself without more experienced help) I wouldn't try that way.
Amen to that - this will not be a DIY job my first time 'round...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatweb View Post
..If you intend to keep the boat and have to do this again, change the wiring this time so as it all disconnectable from the deck level, and then you can pull the clevis pin at the bottom of the backstay next time and every other time and just let the whole lot sag forward.
Agreed - is already in my plans along with the updated electronics.

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.. Just a thought, but if you slacked off the backstay tension without disconnecting it,will it sag enough to accomodate the travel lift.
Interesting point - the length of the hydraulic cylinder would seem to be enough. Depends upon how much of the travel is in use / the length of the stay and how much clearance they'll need.

Thanks Ian.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:15   #9
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Doesn't the boatyard know what you need to do? If they don't then I would steer clear of that boatyard.
They say they have riggers that will do this of course. But do they have riggers that will be as concerned about my boat as I am??

I'd prefer to be in the drivers seat lest someone do something we'll all regret.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:17   #10
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just thought i'd add my thoughts as i have the same boat........use your main halyard as a temporary back stay run to your toe rail as a safety. attach your jib halyard to the top of the backstay to take the load of the stay as it is very heavy. without a backstay your stick will not fall over as you are keel stepped and you have swepped back spreaders. life is short and your stick might never come down again, so leave the wiring where it is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.(my dads favorite expression) happy haul out, cheers from Canada
Good advice... beats my mantra "if it works, find out why."

Good to hear from you again - c'mon down to warmer climes and lend a hand will ya?
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Old 05-02-2008, 13:06   #11
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They say they have riggers that will do this of course.
Get ready to take a pounding (in the wallet)
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Old 05-02-2008, 16:05   #12
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Hey Mark:

Who are you trying to use? Putt on over to Rockport/Fulton and use Hooking Bulls' 65TON travel lift.

Hooking Bull Boatyard, Inc.

HOOKING BULL BOATYARD, INC.

Address: P O Box 726
Rockport, Texas 78381-0726


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Hooking Bull Boatyard, Inc.
Description: HAUL OUT YARD, UP TO 65' VESSELS WITH 18' BEAM. DO-YOUR-SELF YARD OR REPAIR WITH OUR EXPERIENCE CREW, CHERRY PICKER AVAILABLE FOR RIGGING REPAIRS, ALL TYPES OF PLUMBING OFFERED, WOODED BOATS ACCEPTED, QUICK HAULS SAME DAY IF TIME ALLOWS, CARRY MARINE SUPPLIES, BOTTOM JOBS, BILGE CLEANING, GELCOAT MATCHING, AWL GRIP APPLICATION, BUFF/WAX TOPSIDES & SIDES. JOTUN PAINTS DEALER, YARD IS ACCESSIBLE BY WATER OR LAND. BIGGEST LITTLE FRIENDLIEST BOAT YARD IN SOUTH TEXAS! OPEN 7 DAYS HRS 8AM TILL DARK GATE IS LOCKED EVERY NIGHT PHONE: 361-729-5527 FAX: 361-729-7481 EMAIL: haulout35@yahoo.com Call us to find out more about our professional services!

have fun

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Old 06-02-2008, 07:21   #13
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I've looked there also - the travel lift is the same size as at House of Boats and would require the stay to come down also. HOB is where I'm headed. Plus I found some internet rants about Hooking Bull...

The only yard with a lift big enough to haul her as-is is the Mile 533. However, 533 will not allow DIY work so I'll pass.
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:35   #14
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Quote:
without a backstay your stick will not fall over as you are keel stepped and you have swepped back spreaders.
We took our backstay off this fall to haul as well. It's a deck stepped mast and I used the main halyard and a jib halyard. We had 30 knot winds 2 days after the haul. No big deal. Without a sail up the load isn't that bad. we marked the twin backstay turn buckles with tape so we could get them both back the way they were before we left the slip.
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Old 06-02-2008, 08:07   #15
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... we marked the twin backstay turn buckles with tape so we could get them both back the way they were before we left the slip.
Good tip - thanks Paul!
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