Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-04-2016, 21:18   #1
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Question B&R Rig Design Info Source Help + Feedback on Such Rigs

Hi Guys,
I may be getting involved with a custom boat design project/build. More specifically, a high performance cruiser/racer. Ergo, there will be a much lesser need to be able to fully ease out the mainsail downwind. As the boat will be fast enough to always be reaching, when sailing off of the wind.
Thus, part of the project could entail creating a Bergstrom & Ridder (B&R) type rig for her. Or something close there to. Such as Hunter did with some of their boats, for example.

The reasoning behind such (a rig) being that;
- There would be less weight aloft vs. a conventional rig. AKA one can use a more svelte tube on a boat with more Righting Moment.
- You can build a light weight rig of this type, which, pound for pound, is more forgiving of "user error", or "interventions of Neptune", than you can with a standard rig.
- There's a "ripe" tube (or 3) available for such a conversion. Well, more or less
- No/less backstay/runners to deal with, vs. a standard rig.
- Built in Standing Rigging "redundancy".
- The ability to carry a huge, highly aerodynamically efficient main. Thanks to the backstayless/less backstay/runner concept (built into the design).

So, I'm hoping that someone, or several someone's, can point me towards some good info sources, & or references, regarding the (rough) design(ing) of such rigs. And the critical factors involved therein.
For example, how one chooses a (mast) tube, to begin with, based upon the boat's Righting Moment. And how one decides on what size standing rigging is required, plus, how it's attached (and to where, as well as how)?

Also, I'm curious to hear feedback (pros & cons) from anyone who's had significant experience/sea time with one (or several) of these rigs. Including anyone who has, or had one on their Hunter for a while.
Especially as compared to a standard rig. Be it in the racing, or cruising, context.

Plus, what are the big sticking points, & expenses involved in putting one together vs. a conventional rig? And any & all tips & info on both tangs, & spreader design (& construction) would be Greatly appreciated. Ditto on the design of mast steps; be they keel type, or deck type.

And... of course, anything else of significance which I may have left out, due to being on the steeper part of the learning curve about these rigs.

Thanks in advance
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 21:28   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: B&R Rig Design Info Source Help + Feedback on Such Rigs

A couple of quick thoughts.

They are meant to facilitate the use of a high roach main. Why folks use them with in mast furling is beyond me.

The swept back spreaders mitigate against down wind performance as you ease the mainsail as far as desirable.

The hull mounted chainplates prevent the use of larger genoas and require inboard fairlead cars.

The mast will be mounted further forward affecting the location of interior bulkheads. You will need to work closely with the boat designer on mast placement, interior design, sail plan, keel design, etc..
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 00:05   #3
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: B&R Rig Design Info Source Help + Feedback on Such Rigs

Most of this, while helpful (Thanks), is old news, but for the following.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
A couple of quick thoughts.

They are meant to facilitate the use of a high roach main. Why folks use them with in mast furling is beyond me.

The swept back spreaders mitigate against down wind performance as you ease the mainsail as far as desirable.
As mentioned, it'll be a high performance boat, for which it only makes sense to gybe downwind (more). As the VMG is better. So this isn't a big handicap, if at all.

The hull mounted chainplates prevent the use of larger genoas and require inboard fairlead cars.
The designs being entertained are pretty narrow. Narro enough so that most of her headsails are designed to be sheeted outside of the staying base (for the mast) as it is. For all but the tiny ones anyway.

The mast will be mounted further forward affecting the location of interior bulkheads. You will need to work closely with the boat designer on mast placement, interior design, sail plan, keel design, etc..

I'm VERY curious to know why this is mandatory with B&R rigs?

Many Thanks.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would appreciate some feedback on my design... Serapium Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 5 13-10-2015 18:08
Junk Rigs sail_the_stars General Sailing Forum 45 17-02-2012 05:27
Two Amp Feedback to Shore Power Cable - Help! denmanislander Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 38 29-03-2010 08:57
Fishing rigs Curtis General Sailing Forum 6 26-04-2005 14:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:43.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.