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Old 21-02-2013, 16:10   #166
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

We sell some of the titanium parts for the open 60 monsters. The safety margins they work with would absolutely not be acceptable for any but all out race boats. Our shackles for instance were selected based upon a 10% safety margin. Where a typical margin would be 200%.
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Old 26-02-2013, 13:11   #167
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EC6 Carbon Rigging

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Old 26-02-2013, 13:27   #168
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

Yes, it's extremely expensive.
And the note about the 3 boats using it in the Volvo 70s was a bit ironic. Considering Puma dropped their rig. It was due to a faulty steel fitting, but it makes you wonder if the same failure would happen with a more forgiving material like SS.
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Old 11-03-2013, 16:20   #169
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

Has anyone used Dyneema sk-75/Amsteel for rigging instead of DUX? Dux is three times as expensive and still has some stretch & creep has to be dealt with anyway. If rigged to turnbuckles this extra work might be manageable?
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Old 11-03-2013, 19:57   #170
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

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Originally Posted by rdubuque View Post
Has anyone used Dyneema sk-75/Amsteel for rigging instead of DUX? Dux is three times as expensive and still has some stretch & creep has to be dealt with anyway. If rigged to turnbuckles this extra work might be manageable?
I tried it. Don't do it.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:46   #171
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

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Originally Posted by rdubuque View Post
Has anyone used Dyneema sk-75/Amsteel for rigging instead of DUX? Dux is three times as expensive and still has some stretch & creep has to be dealt with anyway. If rigged to turnbuckles this extra work might be manageable?
I'm no expert on this stuff, I've just done my lifelines, but it's my understand that the Dynex Dux is a lot stronger and more chafe resistant due to being pre-stretched under heat.
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:12   #172
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

One of the things that concerns me is the tension. Is there a tension gauge like the Loos Gauge for adjust dyneema/Dux for getting the rig even for both P/S?

I suppose one could just use the loos gauge to get the shrouds even in tension and then adjust them underway. Once tight enough on a 30º heel then document what the loos gauge reads.

Then there is the "creep" I hear about so often.
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:32   #173
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

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Then there is the "creep" I hear about so often.
Creep is what makes it impossible for bigger boats to use Dynex Dux as you get to ridiculous diameters. I am contemplating going to rod next time.
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:33   #174
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

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One of the things that concerns me is the tension. Is there a tension gauge like the Loos Gauge for adjust dyneema/Dux for getting the rig even for both P/S?
The Loos Tension Gauges (LOVE that name) are pretty expensive if you get much above 7mm (1/4"+). I've been working with John Franta (Mr. Dux) on a cheap tension gauge, using a std cheap torque wrench, the type with a long handle & a long pointer to a small panel up by the handle. The only additional part would be a short bar with 2 pins sticking down, with a 1/2" square hole in the bar to fit onto the torque wrench. Even without calibration you could easily get both sides the same tension. It could be calibrated by borrowing a load cell for a few hours. Or even using a fish scale on the handle of a big winch & working out the mechanical advantage (how many handle rotations for 1 drum rotation, & using the handle swing diameter vs the drum diameter) would also get pretty close.
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:47   #175
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Yes. The regular Spectra type lines creep too much for shroud use. The treated line will be much better, but not as good as wire. Great for running and standing backstays. But even then build it for the inevitable creep. I make a simple adjustable eye splice by threading the bitter end inside the standing part for 20 diameters then back outside. Tug on the bitter end and then whip it to the standing part. Tidy. Full strength. Never slips. No ugly knots like on other people's boats

I have Amsteel lifelines. They need the slack taken out every year. Note they are not loaded but for the occasional bump or tug.

A tension gauge is not needed for setting up a rig. They are most useful for racers to return to a pre-determined setting. Sighting up the mainsail track is the way to do it. A bit of practice, patience, is all it takes.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:04   #176
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

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Originally Posted by Jon Hacking View Post
The Loos Tension Gauges (LOVE that name) are pretty expensive if you get much above 7mm (1/4"+). I've been working with John Franta (Mr. Dux) on a cheap tension gauge, using a std cheap torque wrench, the type with a long handle & a long pointer to a small panel up by the handle. The only additional part would be a short bar with 2 pins sticking down, with a 1/2" square hole in the bar to fit onto the torque wrench. Even without calibration you could easily get both sides the same tension. It could be calibrated by borrowing a load cell for a few hours. Or even using a fish scale on the handle of a big winch & working out the mechanical advantage (how many handle rotations for 1 drum rotation, & using the handle swing diameter vs the drum diameter) would also get pretty close.
I already have the Loos PT-3 which I use each spring to check the 5/16" & 3/8" wires shrouds before my summer cruises.

I've been contemplating synthetic rigging for the next round. But unless there are some design improvements/updates I'll probably stick with wire. My life lines are dyneema and are working out well since I adapted the old SS turnbuckles to fit, and that they don't need to be tensioned except to keep out the slack/droop. My 4 gate wires cost me more then all the dyneema to do the rest of ht boat. Plus my own labor of course.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:09   #177
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

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The Loos Tension Gauges (LOVE that name)
Loos gauge calibration sheet:
http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/mi...sGaugeCals.pdf

The difference between SK75 and SK75 that has been heat treated and pre-stretched is amazing. The strength is much higher and the creep is much lower. There still is creep, but no where near the amount that non-heat treated stuff is. Don't use the regulat 75 for standing rigging. Lifelines are fine.

If you want zero stretch and creep, you need to go PBO. But that is a small % of racers who can justify that cost.

Quote:
Creep is what makes it impossible for bigger boats to use Dynex Dux as you get to ridiculous diameters.
How so? Could you provide an example?
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:26   #178
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Quote:
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Creep is what makes it impossible for bigger boats to use Dynex Dux as you get to ridiculous diameters. I am contemplating going to rod next time.
Colligo has done an older Open 60 rigged for cruising. That's pretty big.

http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/open60.pdf
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:42   #179
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

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I tried it. Don't do it.
SailFastTri
Could you tell us why? What was your experience?
T.
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:53   #180
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Re: Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?

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Colligo has done an older Open 60 rigged for cruising. That's pretty big.

http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/open60.pdf
Unfortunately they keep it a secret as how they "engineered around the high static load and creep problem".
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