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Old 21-06-2016, 07:03   #16
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Re: All black lines?

I will be using proper line.
80% of my lines will be the same size, correct size will be used.
All halyards will be hung at the base of the masts. It is easy to see where they go on my boat.

There seams to be disagreement about black and UV, any links to information on this? Were multicolored lines always the norm? I see about 1/2 and 1/2 around the marinas so far.
I think they are nice looking:



This is not what my boat is like:


This is not a good picture, not my boat(same) but is closer to what you will see on mine:


At this point I am leaning towards different colors but I am still undecided.
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Old 21-06-2016, 07:56   #17
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Re: All black lines?

Single colour works fine for you
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Old 21-06-2016, 08:58   #18
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Re: All black lines?

it does not matter what the color of your line is.
i have 20 year old remnants with the colors still identifiable--never had a line go alll basic color except beige yacht braid, which eventually merely looks like dirt, despite frequent cleaning and stowing in dark place.
my black lines are better looking than my colored ones.
if you are in this for appearances, then you purchase lines every 5 years.
if you are in this for the sailing and adventuring, you buy new when the old ones rupture. or the day before.....
helpful hint---the cute yet annoying allegedly romantic slapping sound you are hearing of halyards against the mast and spreaders is what causes you to need more frequent replacement of your lines. it is also the song of the noobeez. represents dollar signs and lack of seamanship.
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Old 21-06-2016, 10:03   #19
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Re: All black lines?

Color coding is the only way to go. As it makes lines Much easier to identify; even/especially in the dark (often sans flashlight), or when you're tired, have new crew onboard, etc. And the colors may fade a bit with age, but not enough to reduce their ease of identification much.
And unlike color flecked lines, it's easy to differentiate between various colored lines in bright sunlight, with your sunglasses still on.

I'm a fan of, more or less, "standard" colors. Ones that are almost universal across the spectrum of racing boats, as well as a good number of cruisers. That way, it's easy for new crew to know what's what, very easily. Just as you always place the main halyard on starboard, etc.

But definitely color code your reefing lines, regardless. As they're easy to get confused. So, one color per reef; both clew & tack, the same. Preferably with none of the reefing lines being the same color as any of the other lines on the spar.

Also, for halyards, cunninghams, reefing lines (& strops), 100% Dyneema cored is the way to go. It costs a bit more at the outset, but they wear far, far better than Dacron does. To the degree that some Open Class racers have done a couple of circumnavigations with the same set of Dyneema lines.
And with them, you'll heel less, plus your sail shape will be better, due to less halyard stretch. So you'll also grab a few extra nm each day.
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Old 21-06-2016, 10:14   #20
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Re: All black lines?

I've always preferred different colors. One color looks "neater" but it's really hard for inexperienced crew to know what's what. I guess you could label all the clutches but someone still has to read the labels. Lot easier to just say "the red one..."
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Old 21-06-2016, 12:06   #21
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Re: All black lines?

Color codes are for daysailors Nighttime they are darker or lighter than the background, so better learn their places and purpose regardless of the colour..
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Old 21-06-2016, 13:17   #22
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Re: All black lines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
it is also the song of the noobeez. represents dollar signs and lack of seamanship.
As does "look at that beautiful sailboat out there. It looks lovely with the sails fluttering in the wind".

Sounds heavenly to a sail maker...
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Old 21-06-2016, 15:39   #23
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Re: All black lines?

If your doing this to just save some money. You will most likely regret it in the long run and have to spend more money to replace the lines.

From your pics yes you could have the halyards jib and main the same color, who cares. But for all other running lines go color. It is just easier for humans to dicifer color.
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Old 21-06-2016, 16:23   #24
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Re: All black lines?

Formosa Scott,

I realize that my first response here had a built-in bias for having all the lines different colors, without saying anything about the reason(s) for it, which fortunately have been covered above:

Especially at night, it will be easy to grab the wrong line if they all are black, especially, too, when you are fatigued. Even if you know where and which line to use, if you ever have crew, for them, color will help them to identify the lines you want them to use. If you want to use the color coding the racers use, perhaps a PM to UNCIVILIZED would get you that info.

Even if you have the rope clutches labeled, you will find it is quicker to tell by color than by reading which line to grab. Imagine, in the middle of the night confusing your stays'l sheets for the jib sheets if they all are black and the same diameter!. I suggest you don't go there.

Strongly recommend multiple colors, and no duplications.

Ann
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Old 21-06-2016, 21:10   #25
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Re: All black lines?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Especially at night, it will be easy to grab the wrong line if they all are black, especially, too, when you are fatigued. Even if you know where and which line to use, if you ever have crew, for them, color will help them to identify the lines you want them to use. If you want to use the color coding the racers use, perhaps a PM to UNCIVILIZED would get you that info.
How well you see color when it's dark? To see color of the lines you must have lights and that destroys your night vision, but who's keeping watch
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Old 21-06-2016, 23:11   #26
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Re: All black lines?

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
How well you see color when it's dark? To see color of the lines you must have lights and that destroys your night vision, but who's keeping watch
Even under starlight a red line will look different than a blue one, it may not look red, but it will generally be lighter. Even the light from the compass light can be enough to make lines stand out just a little. But if they are all black, good luck.
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Old 21-06-2016, 23:24   #27
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Re: All black lines?

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Color codes are for daysailors Nighttime they are darker or lighter than the background, so better learn their places and purpose regardless of the colour..
It's good to know which line is where, but... even the owner/skipper of a boat, as well as her crew, can get fatigued enough so that recalling which line is where, by feel, just isn't happening.
Try staying awake for a full 3+ days, while continually doing significant physical activity, on little food, in harsh weather conditions.
When that happens, Very, Very few people will be able to do what you're suggesting. And by no means, reliably.

And such transpiring is definitely a possibIlity. Particularly if you consider that significant levels of exhaustion on a passage are quite common. Due to poor sleep, watch rotations, extra watches, bad food, sea sickness, heavy weather, etc.

When folks are subjected to the above (or less, even), they'll have enough trouble doing things correctly with color coded lines. Let alone in the dark.

Also why would they not use a red tinted headlamp or flashlight to tell which line's which? Such has been standard practice, shipboard, for well over a century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
How well you see color when it's dark? To see color of the lines you must have lights and that destroys your night vision, but who's keeping watch
One of the selection criteria for lines, is to pick colors & color patterns for your lines, which make it easy(er) to discern one from another in low light. Or under the light of a red tinted headlamp.
Yeah, it looks racer'ish, but for practical reasons. It's not just for style.


In all but pitch black conditions, you'll be able to tell the difference (sans headlamp) between say;
- a charcoal grey line, with light flecks
- a solid fluorescent orange line
- a solid, or flecked, white line
- a yellow line, with 1/3 to 1/2 of it's cover, being say, red. In a pattern with a sharp contrasts. So that it's a variation of a Bumble Bee pattern effect.
Etcetera, etcetera.

And there are more colors & patterns out there than you can shake a stick at. Enough so that on my old 2-Tonner (42'), there wasn't much repetition of any of them. Especially not in proximity to one another. And she had 30+ control lines.
I didn't always have the full compliment of lines on deck. But unless just out for a lazy day sail, 75%+ of them were in place, & ready for use. So, yeah, color coding wasn't just a luxury. But rather, a necessity.


One other "trick" which is very helpful for differentiating lines, is to use lines with a very different texture built into them/their jackets, for application X, or Y. This, in addition to differing colors & color patterns. That way, if your hands aren't numb from the cold, you can also differentiate your lines via tactile means.
The same is also done by using different diameter lines, for various applications.


A parting thought:
Putting the 100% correct line in your hand, before you go to adjust things onboard, can be critically important. To the degree that if you goof, it could cost you Big $ in damaged gear, hurt someone, or worse. And such serious, life threatening injuries/accidents have happened to some of my best mates. As well as one Very close call for me. <- Thanks Coach!!!

For instance, if you accidentally loose the main sheet, or the furler's control line, at the wrong moment. Thinking that it was a lazy runner tail... it's distinctly possible that mayhem will ensue.
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Old 22-06-2016, 00:00   #28
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Re: All black lines?

Compass light should be dimmed monochromatic red to see only the compass readings, not to light the cockpit. On a bright night full moon high up on the sky one can see color, barely. With starlight shades of grey.. If it get's really dark you see shape of things against the sky. The sharpest vision is on the perimeter of your sight, a bit of practise to look aside from the target

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision

Using a brighter light even for a second destroys nightvision and it takes about half an hour to get it back.. I use head torch red light at the lowest setting if there's a need for light but even that compromises nightvision at some extent anyway of your watch mates. With it light ropes look red and other colors black.

BR Teddy
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Old 22-06-2016, 00:15   #29
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Re: All black lines?

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And there are more colors & patterns out there than you can shake a stick at. Enough so that on my old 2-Tonner (42'), there wasn't much repetition of any of them. Especially not in proximity to one another. And she had 30+ control lines.
I didn't always have the full compliment of lines on deck. But unless just out for a lazy day sail, 75%+ of them were in place, & ready for use. So, yeah, color coding wasn't just a luxury. But rather, a necessity.
While I concur with you about the other things you mentioned, I'd be a bit sceptic how well most of us could remember 30+ ropes by their color and texture. Anyway without a reasonably long period of time studying them. Halyards on the mast, sheets to cockpit, reef lines on the boom and the rest on deck in their rightfull places. KISS prevails
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Old 22-06-2016, 00:33   #30
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Re: All black lines?

I guess experiences differ. As if I/we can do a spinnaker peel to change to another (conventional) kite, without dropping the one which is up, & going bare headed. While surfing at 20kts, sans deck lighting or headlamps. Then discerning which line is which isn't an issue.
If you choose your lines wisely. And pay attention to what you're doing.

Regarding light usage. It's standard practice to warn anyone & everyone if you're going to use a light after sundown. Even if you're belowdecks, but are within luminescent range of the companionway. So that you don't harm the night vision of others.

Plus, red isn't the only color which mitigates harming one's night vision. So other colors can be used. Especially if they allow for better discernment of colors, better lighting reach, or image clarity.
Decades ago, we even experimented with low powered Black Lights on the mast, & various colored strips on the edges of the spinnaker. So that we could easily see to trim it at night, without blowing our night vision.

For me, I find that it helps to maintain my night vision, if I close one eye when I fire up a headlamp, or other lighting, regardless of color. As does squinting with the one, open eye.

Too, there are also other lighting sources on deck, commonly. Like instruments. But what's lit, & how brightly, is dictated primarily by the helmsman. To only be overridden by the watch captain or the skipper.
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