Adding Reef Points without Sewing

[nautical62]

When I had to add a reef to two different sails, I found hiring the professionals made more economic sense than purchasing the equipment and hoping I had the talent to do a one time project right.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Extemporaneous

Yes, consider the value of you and your families Lives!
Small, small, small, small price to pay. Consider the value of you and your families Lives!
DON'T DO IT! (the 5200 that is).

Are you serious? 5200 is stronger than sailcloth, in tests, the sail fabric will break before the adhesive.

Also, it is _not_ a small price to pay when you are limited on funds.

I just got another mainsail on ebay for $150 (much better price), and it has 3 reefs already and a sailcover which I needed.

Looks like maybe I don't have to worry about this issue in the immediate future, and I can try out the 5200 because I have 3 mainsails now (plenty of backup). I will try it on jibs too.

[Pblais]

I am still considering 5200. Is there a good reason not to use it other than it is relatively unheard of? That is a bad reason.

Then why did you ask? So what would be the worst thing that would happen if the 3rd reef point fails? Sail makers have been ripping people off for years when deep down they know some glue would work just as well. You might never really need the 4th reef point in any case. Duct tape would add UV protection. 5200 isn't really UV safe.

The only question I would ask is why did you ask the question in the first place when you already were so sure of the answer?

[Joli]

Just take the sail down if it is windier then your 1st reef.

[Extemporaneous]

Well okay then!

Originally Posted by geckosenator

Are you serious? 5200 is stronger than sailcloth, in tests, the sail fabric will break before the adhesive.

Now, would that be a Laboratory test? On your exact sail cloth? How much time in the sun? Over what area? Any contaminants trapped in the sail cloth? How many layers of ??? spreads the load over what area?
I'm sure there is more questions, but there is a couple for ya.

Originally Posted by geckosenator

Also, it is _not_ a small price to pay when you are limited on funds.

I guess we all place different values on our life.
Ask your loved ones that will be sailing with you how much their lives are worth. It may be different then yours!

Originally Posted by geckosenator

I just got another mainsail on ebay for $150 (much better price), and it has 3 reefs already and a sailcover which I needed.

I hope this works out! Really hope!

Originally Posted by geckosenator

Looks like maybe I don't have to worry about this issue in the immediate future, and I can try out the 5200 because I have 3 mainsails now (plenty of backup). I will try it on jibs too.

So your in a blow and your reef point fails. What do you think happens right at that point?
I'm envisioning the ferocious winds (must be ferocious or you would not have reefed) all of a sudden filling what is now the FULL square footage of your main. THEN I see either the boat on it's side and/or the mast ripped form the boat.
Now, so that you know, I don't have much sailing experience and so I could be a bit off. The tragedy might go down quite differently.

Now I expect that you may be pulling our leg with your insistence and if you are, shame on you. If you not and you think you might try this .....
LET ME TALK TO THE ADMIRAL!
If you can't see the risk here, perhaps the Admiral can.

Extemp.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by geckosenator

the cost of the new main sail (was $350).

Thread shift!!!!!

Where can I buy good quality sails for that price? Even good second hand sails would be fine

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Pblais

The only question I would ask is why did you ask the question in the first place when you already were so sure of the answer?

To be honest, I was not sure of the answer. I am still not so sure of it. I am also happy to get insightful comments or related suggestions. If 5200 isnt UV safe, then maybe it is a problem.

As for getting the sail.. I found someone anchored near me who had it. They scored it cheap when someone else decided to "upgrade" to roller system soon after getting the boat. The sail wasn't used much, or at least is like new.

[blahman]

Gecko,

This may work for you, but you might try the adhesion of 5200 to new, resin-impregnated dacron cloth. New material is non-porous and very slippery, so I don't think it would adhere well without modification of some sort.

See if your sailmaker has some spare cloth you could test on.


Extemporaneous,

If a reef point fails, sails just spill their wind and start flogging like crazy. This isn't necessarily good either, the two times I've seen a reef point blow, there was no insane loss of rigging! The boat just sits up and falls off.

Good luck!
Aaron

[sokkum]

Some jobs have to be left to the professionals (sign outside my grandfathers beehives) so what's wrong going to the local sailmaker ?

[Pblais]

Just using an adhesive assuming it would hold is just the easy part. A real reef point will have several layers of fabric and the webbing used on the D ring is sewn across an area to distribute the load so it isn't concentrated at the point of attachment. They also add a duplicate on the other side of sail so it can be reefed from either side of the boom. This also adds to the strength. Without that extra fabric the webbing will just rip out the sail assuming the glue held perfectly.

You could hand sew on a reef point and stand a far better chance it would work than glue. Create a pattern that adds two layers of sail cloth, then sew then on to the sail and then use a large section of flat webbing to span the patches you have already sewn. It's one things to not have a machine to do it better but hand stitching can be almost as good. Repeat the same operation on the other side. Now you have multiple layers of sail cloth to distribute the force of the reef point.

[edsailing]

Originally Posted by blahman

Gecko,

If a reef point fails, sails just spill their wind and start flogging like crazy. This isn't necessarily good either, the two times I've seen a reef point blow, there was no insane loss of rigging! The boat just sits up and falls off.

Aaron

If the reef clew fails and you have cringles tied in to gather the sail, there is a good chance that the sail will rip right across the line of cringles.

Ooops - that's another sail gone!

[forsailbyowner]

Before you bash the sailmaker think about what's involved in sewing those reef points in. It sure involves a lot of stuffing all that sail through the throat of the machine. Thinking of doing it with a home machine gives me the chills. The typical portable has a 7" throat(sailrite) my industrial has 13" and its still a royal pita.Hopefully your sailmaker would have a $30K long arm. I won't put a grommet in less than 4 layers of cloth and usually the reenforcements are fused and sewn. On a used sail that didn't matter maybe for experimentation I'd give it a try. For a new one I'd wait till I could afford it or get a small main and change it out instead of reefing. Not that big of a job if done early and would probably perform better than a reefed sail .

[first wind]

i have question. why hasn't anyone suggested self adhesive dacron tape or patch material? you can get it from sailrite. it holds well without stitching, in smaller sails. for this usage, i'd make all my reenforcements out of it, apply them, then just spend my spare evenings, while listening to the mrs regail me with tales of her day at work, sewing the new reenforcements by hand. the adhesive backing would hold the reenforcements in place nicely while you sew. just makesure you put then on right the first time around. that stuff is a bear to pull off when you just laid it down. pretty much impossible to do so after it's been there a bit.


oh. lol. just saw the date of the last post. old thread.

[Westerly31]

It is old but still, people discussing how strong the reef points should be.
Actually, reef points do not need to be very strong. They are here just to keep the reeffed sail body close to the boom so the reeffed part of the sail does not flattering around too much.

[Boulter]

Originally Posted by Westerly31

It is old but still, people discussing how strong the reef points should be.
Actually, reef points do not need to be very strong. They are here just to keep the reeffed sail body close to the boom so the reeffed part of the sail does not flattering around too much.

No "reef point" in this tread is the collective consisting of reefing tack, reefing clew, and tie grommets.