Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-03-2008, 14:10   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8
ADDING A BOW SPRIT

Hi everybody, I have been reading and this seems like a real honest place to get advice, so here goes ! Im looking for any advice on the idea of adding a bow sprit to my triton 28. It is a frac rig and I will be replacing all the standing rigging, so I thought this would be the time to add it. I have been told by a Triton owner who did it that if you add a mast head forstay you will have to add a second set of spreaders. It was sugjested (by the rigger who might be doing the rerigging) that I just add a sprit and leave the frac rig alone except for extending the forstay out aprox 18 - 24in. These boats have a lot of weather helm naturely and (i was told) by extending the j of the for sail it reduses the weather helm. I plan on some water sailing">blue water sailing and would also add a removeable inner forstay, maybe attachted to the origenal bow stem, for a storm sail.
__________________

__________________
Bpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 15:08   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
I'm not sure how much sail area you get by extending 1.5 to 2 feet. Can't be much.

Generally, the idea that you can fix a boat better than the original design sounds better than it turns out. Creating the structural support for this mini sprit is not insignificant. Just wouldn't be nice if it fell off taking the whole rig with it. Reefing the main would do more than adding a very small percentage of jib area.

There have been a lot of plans to fix weather helm over the years. Most don't. The one that was tried with my last boat didn't work but I was lucky in that it didn't screw the boat up.
__________________

__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 15:21   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha B,
Adding a bowsprit that will support the pressures inherent with a larger headsail requires new forestay, new whisker stays, a bobstay (larger in diameter than your forestay), bobstay stem fitting and a cransiron to fit to the end of bowsprit to attach to all the new stays. If you can find a an old set of drawings for a Bristol Channel Cutter that would be the design I would pick but on a smaller scale.
I'm not certain why you would need an extra set of spreaders? You would need to extend your upper shrouds to the top of your mast at your new masthead fitting.
I always think it fun and exciting to experiment with trying to improve your rig.
If you want to go the real cheap route to get rid of some of your weather helm you can try to rake your mast forward just a few inches to see if that helps a bit.
I personally think bowsprits are the best thing going. A great place to sit, dive from, dangle your feet and they definitely are salty.
Good luck on your choice of what to do.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 16:14   #4
Registered User
 
cathyoz's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: "Noosa" Australia, I am French by birth and Australian by choise.
Boat: 2 boats , a colson 21 and a bolger micro
Posts: 227
I personally think bowsprits are the best thing going. A great place to sit, dive from, dangle your feet and they definitely are salty.
JohnL[/quote]

i totaly agreed with that!!

i could stay there for hours, and they are so usefull to balance the baot
i like cutter sail, better that a huge genoi, especialy short handed
__________________
there are no problemes , only solutions
cathyoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 16:21   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Quote:
I personally think bowsprits are the best thing going.
I won't argue the virtues of them. Some race boats add a retractable sprit for the spinnaker. We have a 6 ft one, Bobstay, Jack Staff and the stainless pulpit to go with the teak platform. I'm convinced the boat was designed around it, but you just don't tack them on any boat you come across because they are cool looking.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 17:04   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8
Hey guys, Thanks for all the info! If i understand what I was told I wouldnt be putting up a bigger headsail just moving it forward. (maybe I misunderstood) But yes I really like having a bowsprit! I would only have to add spreaders if I added a mast head rig. The problem I have with the weather helm is that I have to reef very early, around 10 kts and then agian at 15kts. I plan on installing a windvane and I realize that you must keep good sail trim for them to work properly. There for I will be giving up sail long befor the conditions warrant it. Maybe Im looking at this the wrong way? Again any help would be great. Thaks alot!
__________________
Bpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 17:09   #7
Registered User
 
cathyoz's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: "Noosa" Australia, I am French by birth and Australian by choise.
Boat: 2 boats , a colson 21 and a bolger micro
Posts: 227
"weather helm"
could it be a bad rudder design?
__________________
there are no problemes , only solutions
cathyoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 17:12   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha B,

I assume you are working to windward when you feel the need to reef. Most boats should put in the first reef at 15 degrees of heel, usually 15 knots of wind (funny how that works out) You may have an oversized genny or an oversized (or deep drafted main that you can't flatten)? You'll definitely need more gear than just new spreaders if you intend to add a bowsprit.

JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 17:22   #9
Registered User
 
cathyoz's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: "Noosa" Australia, I am French by birth and Australian by choise.
Boat: 2 boats , a colson 21 and a bolger micro
Posts: 227
sorry of course , i assure you had good sails..
SkiprJhon , you are probably right..
i always assume people have new news sails, i am very fussy myself with my sails..
i used to race, and can help myself that to look at good trim sails..
funny enough , people seams to spend all that time talking about electronique an engine, this and that..and not be more fussy about the sails..
when i see them laching their sails like "salami" on the boom ..i feel so sorry ..
__________________
there are no problemes , only solutions
cathyoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 18:17   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 558
as the Triton is an older CCA design the boat is designed to heel at at leats 15 degrees. then she should shoulder into the seas and become quite stiff, and at that point they usually got weater helm. you have to reef early with these designs. when you think you have to reef you are already to late. go to the Triton web sight and you will get a wealth of info regarding the sailing characteristics of the boats in most wind conditions.
__________________
mike d. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 18:18   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8
Thanks again for all the help! I've been thinking about it and maybe I need to take another look at my sails and there shape/cond . If I didnt have to reef until 15kts the first time I would be thrilled! I have a full batton main now. Would that help or hurt? Maybe not make a diff? Sorry guys, Im new at this and am about to spend alot of my kitty on rigging. Just dont wont to make the wrong choice. Oh ya the rudder was just rebuilt a yr ago. The boat does tract striat with tiller strait.
__________________
Bpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 18:25   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8
Thanks Mike D, You are right they are very stiff after 15dg. If you have a web site for Tritons I would like to get it. I have tried to get on the owners page and cant get any reply. I need a few parts and would love to talk to some of them.
__________________
Bpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2008, 01:23   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hobart Australia
Boat: Hartley RORC 32
Posts: 119
There is one thing here that has not been said and that is the turning force placed upon the bow spit with a forestay coming off away from the fixing point on the deck
The problem here is leverage on the spit itself
many have come adrift or broken in two because of this, and the boats that have bow spits were designed for them and usually have a stay under the bowspit fitted to the stem to counter the forces from the stay
I am fitting a larger bowspit to my boat, but only with the same placement position for the forestays. My reason is for sitting and anchor position, but am placing bracing underneath to the stem as part of the structure to support the additional forces during anchoring (downward forces)
The shear forces pulling up on the bowspit are immense with the forestay being projected out from the boat.
Be very careful and talk to an engineer, the end results otherwise could be catastrophic and will happen in a storm at the worst time.
cheers
__________________
hooked on water is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2008, 11:51   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha Hooked,
Yes, you need a bobstay and two whisker stays if you'll be putting a headstay to the end of a bowsprit. That takes the pressure off the sprit and puts it to the hull at three attachment points. Then the only pressure the sprit has is compression.
For your purpose you need a support from the stem to the bowsprit to hold the sprit up. That's a different load angle. "Skene's Elements of Yacht Design" is a great book.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2008, 16:32   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hobart Australia
Boat: Hartley RORC 32
Posts: 119
Thanks John

I will look that book up
I am having the spit made later this year and will take into account
cheers
Greg
__________________

__________________
hooked on water is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tobago 35: Custom Modifications Sonosailor Fountaine Pajot 14 21-09-2012 06:32
adding a pic High Cotton Meets & Greets 12 28-11-2007 18:38
"Sprit Rigged" Sailing Skiff for sale cburger Classifieds Archive 7 28-09-2007 11:54
Adding new Trojans Islandmike Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 4 29-12-2006 18:10
Adding images Gisle Forum News & Announcements 0 28-02-2003 23:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.