Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-04-2018, 09:24   #1
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,313
You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25 year

After following recent refrigerator forum threads you should understand why of all the different engineering disciplines why mechanical engineering is the most difficult because of the many variables. Add creative marketing to any technical product line decision a refrigeration application engineer or the customer to understand can be frustrating. All these resent debates about selecting what refrigeration hardware is best for conversion of an icebox into a boat refrigerator freezer are good. One design for an icebox conversion refrigerator will never satisfy every boater desires because there are no to boats going to the same. When it comes to selecting refrigeration for your boat, there are over 100 options to select from. For boxes under four cu ft choices you will be asked to make is the size of compressor correct? And will the correct size of evaporator fit in the box? In these small boxes I suggest a Bin evaporator for making ice and keeping a few items frozen.

Sure there is a very small difference between cycling and non cycling systems this was a problem with the fixed speed compressors but no longer. I commented on Pete’s chart because it was not a fair comparison but if it was there was only a 11 amp-hr difference in a 24 hour day. True energy efficiency comparison is when evaporator Btu capacity matches compressor output on both units.

There has been enough debate about eutectic holding plate’s advantages and disadvantages so you decide what is best for your refrigeration.

The Choice between a capillary tube or Thermo expansion valve will sometimes vary based on compressor limitations in a wide range of climate conditions. Canadian boats that come south every winter might benefit from TXV refrigerant control. I always found that large holding plates need TXV flow control. I do not recommend Low Pressure Regulator valves for refrigerant flow control.

I am surprised that there are no discussions about costs of the icebox conversion refrigeration systems especially when you consider the lower gadget free systems may perform over time better than units costing two to four times more. Low daily energy consumption depend more on units installation in a boat than most marketing gadgets actually deliver.
__________________

Richard Kollmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2018, 09:42   #2
Are you serious?
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 15,503
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

AND if you are a cruiser decide on what you really need/want for the refrigeration/freezer and then make yourelectric system support it. Cold beer and unspoiled food is worth a LOT more than 30AH/day extra electrical power!
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2018, 10:51   #3
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Toronto On Canada
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 736
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Richard
When you say “low pressure regulator” valve are you talking about a CPV or constant pressure valve ?

Regards John
Typhoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2018, 13:21   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,313
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine View Post
Richard
When you say “low pressure regulator” valve are you talking about a CPV or constant pressure valve ?

Regards John
John, The correct description should have been Evaporator Pressure Regulator (EPR). The reason I do not recommend them is they are too easy to adjust and only the system designer knows what the fixed pressure should be. There are only two system manufacturers for boats that use EPR valves instead of Cap Tubes or TXVs as far as I know.
Richard Kollmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2018, 13:46   #5
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Toronto On Canada
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 736
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann View Post
John, The correct description should have been Evaporator Pressure Regulator (EPR). The reason I do not recommend them is they are too easy to adjust and only the system designer knows what the fixed pressure should be. There are only two system manufacturers for boats that use EPR valves instead of Cap Tubes or TXVs as far as I know.
I know SeaFrost uses a CPV to control refrigerant flow in there system . Not sure if anyone else does .

Regards John
Typhoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2018, 08:03   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Boat: C&C Invader36
Posts: 12
Send a message via Skype™ to Greason
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Richard Coleman: I bought system from you over 25 years ago and it's still humming along. I know I made the right choice.
Greason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2018, 10:33   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,091
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Richard, did you change the spelling of your last name to avoid confusion with the camping supplier?
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2018, 11:53   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Boat: C&C Invader36
Posts: 12
Send a message via Skype™ to Greason
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Damn Spell Check
Greason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2018, 12:09   #9
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,313
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greason View Post
Richard Coleman: I bought system from you over 25 years ago and it's still humming along. I know I made the right choice.
Greason, When I retired 28 years ago I never new how many friends I would meet when I left aviation and switched to sailboats downsizing my responsibilities and activities. I get fewer Christmas cards and contacts each year regarding my 30 year in a much smaller refrigeration adventure. I enjoy hearing that my system design performed well for you.
Richard Kollmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2018, 12:23   #10
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,313
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greason View Post
Damn Spell Check
Correct name spelling is not important to me. When ask to give a legal deposition or call me to diner, they call me the refrigeration man.
Richard Kollmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2018, 12:34   #11
Registered User
 
Dougtiff's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Rafael, Ca.
Boat: Gaff rigged Ketch[Spray]37' on deck
Posts: 349
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Hi Richard, Doug here, i have access to a new Tropic Cool refrigeration unit, that uses carbon dioxide for a gas, with a Stirling compressor and of coarse a condenser, the company went out of business do to the cost of manufacturing the compressor i was told, i do not have access to any teck. info, as the paper work is long gone, i'm thinking of using the unit to refrigerate a 11 Cf fridge, as the original AB with cold plates and engine run compressor is dead, ever run across this system ?. Regards, Doug.
Dougtiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2018, 13:33   #12
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,313
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

I don't think I have any of that information left. There was and hopefully is still a small electronics supplier on west coast of FL. Hot Wire I think is the name. He was involved in marketing that unit. Hot Wire also sells Kiss wind generators and travels to boat shows with wind generator mounted on top of truck. This person will be the one I would look far. The one thing I remember about that unit is the condenser had to be above evaporator using gravity to flood evaporator.
Richard Kollmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2018, 16:49   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Careel Bay Pittwater
Boat: Custome Open BOC 50' cutter rig
Posts: 181
Images: 3
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann View Post
After following recent refrigerator forum threads you should understand why of all the different engineering disciplines why mechanical engineering is the most difficult because of the many variables. Add creative marketing to any technical product line decision a refrigeration application engineer or the customer to understand can be frustrating. All these resent debates about selecting what refrigeration hardware is best for conversion of an icebox into a boat refrigerator freezer are good. One design for an icebox conversion refrigerator will never satisfy every boater desires because there are no to boats going to the same. When it comes to selecting refrigeration for your boat, there are over 100 options to select from. For boxes under four cu ft choices you will be asked to make is the size of compressor correct? And will the correct size of evaporator fit in the box? In these small boxes I suggest a Bin evaporator for making ice and keeping a few items frozen.

Sure there is a very small difference between cycling and non cycling systems this was a problem with the fixed speed compressors but no longer. I commented on Pete’s chart because it was not a fair comparison but if it was there was only a 11 amp-hr difference in a 24 hour day. True energy efficiency comparison is when evaporator Btu capacity matches compressor output on both units.

There has been enough debate about eutectic holding plate’s advantages and disadvantages so you decide what is best for your refrigeration.

The Choice between a capillary tube or Thermo expansion valve will sometimes vary based on compressor limitations in a wide range of climate conditions. Canadian boats that come south every winter might benefit from TXV refrigerant control. I always found that large holding plates need TXV flow control. I do not recommend Low Pressure Regulator valves for refrigerant flow control.

I am surprised that there are no discussions about costs of the icebox conversion refrigeration systems especially when you consider the lower gadget free systems may perform over time better than units costing two to four times more. Low daily energy consumption depend more on units installation in a boat than most marketing gadgets actually deliver.
Hi Richard,

I'm interested in learning anything about your last para, re Icebox conversion.

Background;
In my case I had a total refit my boats interior and the fridge box about 135 litres, I had built has 6 1-inch foam insulation panels with builder’s foil between each layer of foam with a 6-inch lid. It is a eutectic system run off my engine AC compressor which has cost me no end of expense and problems.
When I hire the services of a marine fridge engineer, they all wiggle by saying since they did not install the fridge system, any repairs they make there are no guarantees on their repairs, while at the same time hand me a bill ranging $700 to $1,200. A time.
End result is the system fails again within a few short months. Total cost including not enjoying a cold beer so far is $7,000 in a gambit of a number of Mr fridge marine fix it repairs.

The eutectic tank is fine, but everything connected to it have caused nothing but expensive grief. so much so, I give-up used it as a ice box for a while then bought a EvaKool 45 litre fibre glass fridge freezer. It is a shame such a good insulated fridge I use for dry food storage.

What is the best solution in my case to enjoy a stable fridge?

Can you please give me in more detail as to how to convert this non-working fridge into something reliable, as you hinted in you statement.

“ I am surprised that there are no discussions about costs of the icebox conversion refrigeration systems especially when you consider the lower gadget free systems may perform over time better than units costing two to four times more. Low daily energy consumption depends more on unit’s installation in a boat than most marketing gadgets actually deliver.”
Many thanks for your caned observations. Kryg S/V. Skoiern IV.
kryg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:21   #14
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,313
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by kryg View Post
Hi Richard,

I'm interested in learning anything about your last para, re Icebox conversion.

Background;
In my case I had a total refit my boats interior and the fridge box about 135 litres, I had built has 6 1-inch foam insulation panels with builder’s foil between each layer of foam with a 6-inch lid. It is a eutectic system run off my engine AC compressor which has cost me no end of expense and problems.
When I hire the services of a marine fridge engineer, they all wiggle by saying since they did not install the fridge system, any repairs they make there are no guarantees on their repairs, while at the same time hand me a bill ranging $700 to $1,200. A time.
End result is the system fails again within a few short months. Total cost including not enjoying a cold beer so far is $7,000 in a gambit of a number of Mr fridge marine fix it repairs.

The eutectic tank is fine, but everything connected to it have caused nothing but expensive grief. so much so, I give-up used it as a ice box for a while then bought a EvaKool 45 litre fibre glass fridge freezer. It is a shame such a good insulated fridge I use for dry food storage.

What is the best solution in my case to enjoy a stable fridge?

Can you please give me in more detail as to how to convert this non-working fridge into something reliable, as you hinted in you statement.

“ I am surprised that there are no discussions about costs of the icebox conversion refrigeration systems especially when you consider the lower gadget free systems may perform over time better than units costing two to four times more. Low daily energy consumption depends more on unit’s installation in a boat than most marketing gadgets actually deliver.”
Many thanks for your caned observations. Kryg S/V. Skoiern IV.
Kryg, Sorry for the delay in answering. A 50ft boat with only a 135 liter box (less than 5 cu ft) Refrigerator is unusual. My services are free and I will try to help you solve your problem but before going through a 20 question and answer period I need to see what your refrigeration unit looks like, the best way do this is for you to email pictures of complete system installed in your boat. If this is a kit system, who manufactured it? Describe in detail the problem with system now. Is there information on the internet covering your system’s design? Responsible refrigeration companies allow technicians to down load there maintenance repair manuals.

As far my last paragraph this pleasure boat refrigeration industry is filled with miss information. To many times the expensive Icebox conversion systems are compromised with so called energy improving gadgets to the point they are expendable instead of repairable.
Richard Kollmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 08:51   #15
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Toronto On Canada
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 736
Re: You made the Wright Decision if Refrigerators Performance is still Good after 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann View Post
Greason, When I retired 28 years ago I never new how many friends I would meet when I left aviation and switched to sailboats downsizing my responsibilities and activities. I get fewer Christmas cards and contacts each year regarding my 30 year in a much smaller refrigeration adventure. I enjoy hearing that my system design performed well for you.

Hi Richard

PM me your address , I will send you a Christmas card

Regards John.



www.coldeh.com
__________________

Typhoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
refrigerator

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Im trying to make a decision about living aboard and still working. Can anyone contri bustylady Boat Ownership & Making a Living 46 04-12-2016 13:12
critical decision before criticizing decision slowpoker Atlantic & the Caribbean 23 29-12-2011 06:35
Made the Decision to Cruise - Now What ? aimlesswanderer Meets & Greets 12 07-07-2011 14:52
Decision made mikethecapt Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 0 25-02-2009 19:48

Advertise Here


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.