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Old 20-06-2017, 20:29   #121
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Re: World Wide Pump Out?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
The study does not state E. Coli can “thrive” in sea water. It does cite some research that indicates it can exist and even grow, although this paper also cites research indicating exactly the opposite outcome (that it does not live long or expand). This is a survey paper that cites the range of existing research to date. That date is now almost 20 years old, and the research it cites is even older. How about citing some current research. That would be far more compelling.

In addition, the paper notes some research indicates some concentration of bacteria measured up to 300 days out (as low as 8% in 100% sea water if my memory is correct). Assuming standard generations being 20 years, that would mean you claim this E Coli will be around in:

20 years X 365 days X 5 generations = 36,500 days

So for you to be “right" you have to assume no further degradation happens in the additional 36,200 days .
If it was true a billion years ago.

And it was true 40 years ago.

And it was true 20 years ago.

Exactly what do you think 2017 research would find different (question mark).

And why on earth would anyone conduct research on what everyone already knows and accepts (question mark).

(Check that, happens all the time, and proves for the umpteenth time what common sense already leads a 6 year old to know.)

People consider pigs to be dirty animals.

Even pigs know not to $#!+ where they live. They pick a corner of their pen, furthest away from the trough.

Seems some boaters need to step up to be at the same high level as pigs.

Dumping poop in the water is bad. There is no two ways about it. Is the planet better because you dumped your poop in the water (question mark). Of course not. Don't be stupid. Is the planet seriously impacted because you did (well off-shore) (question mark). No. Of course not, but every contribution to something bad, is worse. There is absolutely no changing this no matter what justification attempt. That simple.

Am I a hypocrite in this matter (question mark). Well, one could claim that, but I prefer to think that I am just honest, and not trying to fool anyone, including myself. I realize that my actions can have a negative impact on others, so I am careful to attempt to minimize that within reason.

so just how much of a hardship is it to carry your holding tank out over the 3 mile, 12 mile, or whatever it is limit (question mark). Actually, almost none. Go for a sail, and get out beyond the limit before dumping.

Enforcement (question mark). It doesn't matter does it (question mark). Just do the right thing. As boaters, the least we can do is be stewards of clean water, and abide by the rules, regardless how ill-conceived (with our ignorant minds) we feel they may be.
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Old 20-06-2017, 20:37   #122
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Re: World Wide Pump Out?

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Turkey and the USA are the only nations which feel the need to legislate poop.

I spent an hour yesterday under our boat in our Italian marina (no pumpout), no issues no sickness today, no need to worry.
Wrong, NZ and Australia both have resonably sensible rules around discharge of sewage into inshore waters.

https://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Marine-pollution/Sewage.aspx
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Old 20-06-2017, 21:16   #123
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Re: World Wide Pump Out?

Wow, this one really went off the rails, didn't it?

I guess what I'd really like to know is how the no poop in the water zealots and others like them deal with what is certain to be just massive, overwhelming guilt every time they take a dump at home?

That stuff goes into the water too, friends. Sometimes treated, sometimes not.

You'd better stop pooping, anywhere, immediately. Maybe dig a pit behind the house? Of course, you might contaminate something that way too.

Better to just stop pooping completely. Any other course of action would be an indefensible act of environmental malfeasance.

Just kidding. Sort of.
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Old 21-06-2017, 05:25   #124
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Re: World Wide Pump Out?

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Originally Posted by TJ D View Post
Wow, this one really went off the rails, didn't it?

I guess what I'd really like to know is how the no poop in the water zealots and others like them deal with what is certain to be just massive, overwhelming guilt every time they take a dump at home?

That stuff goes into the water too, friends. Sometimes treated, sometimes not.

You'd better stop pooping, anywhere, immediately. Maybe dig a pit behind the house? Of course, you might contaminate something that way too.

Better to just stop pooping completely. Any other course of action would be an indefensible act of environmental malfeasance.

Just kidding. Sort of.

Heh, heh

If one released bacterium is one too many -- that is, if we are ignoring proportionality -- then this is actually the logical conclusion. If this is the standard, then best just shoot yourself. Or no -- that would cause pollution. Throw yourself into an active volcano.



But don't dig a pit behind your house! Seriously! You might actually contaminate the ground water. The sea, and to a lesser extent, lakes, break down waste quite efficiently, but when sewage gets into ground water, it's bad.
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Old 21-06-2017, 06:30   #125
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Re: World Wide Pump Out?

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If it was true a billion years ago.

And it was true 40 years ago.

And it was true 20 years ago.

Exactly what do you think 2017 research would find different (question mark).
I have no idea what you’re babbling about. You state the bacteria pooped out today and dumped into the waters will be around for my great, great great, great grandchildren. On the scale of how verifiably false this statement is, it scores a 100%. As for your mocking of how science advances, it just further illustrates you have no clue what you’re talking about.

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Dumping poop in the water is bad. There is no two ways about it. Is the planet better because you dumped your poop in the water (question mark). Of course not. Don't be stupid.
Again, you display a phenomenal level of ignorance regarding basic ecology and biology. By your logic, life is bad b/c ALL life (including your pigs) excrete waste into their ecosystems. I sure hope you’re not breathing right now, because your exhale contains many pollutants, and likely a bunch of bacteria and viruses as well. But our atmospheric ecosystems can manage it. It is not bad to breath.

Ecosystems are SYSTEMS. They manage a certain level of waste from the life that exists in that system. Humans are not special. We are another critter. All critters have the capacity to destroy an ecosystem, and there are many examples of non-human critters doing just that. Humans are particularly good at destruction b/c of our abilities to adapt and displace all other species, but we’re still creatures of the environment, and Momma Nature will bring us all into balance eventually.

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so just how much of a hardship is it to carry your holding tank out over the 3 mile, 12 mile, or whatever it is limit (question mark). Actually, almost none. Go for a sail, and get out beyond the limit before dumping.
I have never said anything different. Almost everyone here who has responded to your rambling is saying exactly this. I have no idea what you’re so vehemently arguing about...
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Old 21-06-2017, 23:59   #126
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Re: World Wide Pump Out?

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Wow, this one really went off the rails, didn't it?

I guess what I'd really like to know is how the no poop in the water zealots and others like them deal with what is certain to be just massive, overwhelming guilt every time they take a dump at home?

That stuff goes into the water too, friends. Sometimes treated, sometimes not.

You'd better stop pooping, anywhere, immediately. Maybe dig a pit behind the house? Of course, you might contaminate something that way too.

Better to just stop pooping completely. Any other course of action would be an indefensible act of environmental malfeasance.

Just kidding. Sort of.
They believe in the "Poop Fairy." The zealots flush and their poop just magically goes away.
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Old 22-06-2017, 09:27   #127
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World Wide Pump Out?

A properly designed and installed septic system does not pollute anything, nature deals with it just like poop on the ground.
However you cannot sustain a city with septic systems, your density is to high, just like most logical arguments here, the issue is dilution, sufficiently diluted nature does break down wastes without harm.

Problem is population densities are too high to just dump sewage in cities.

Of course the poop fairy carries the poop "away" just like garbage, we throw it "away" too.

I used to think garbage dumps were a horrible idea, but I've come to the conclusion that one day maybe not too far in the future, we will mine them for raw materials.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:02   #128
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Re: World Wide Pump Out?

You may not be able to mine them, the folks in flooded coastal cities will be frantically competing to move onto the only higher elevations around. Their garbage mountains.

And how come, if the tooth fairy can make pickups AND leave payment, the poop fairy can't just do the same?

Meanwhile, the UN is somewhat upset about 200,000 current cases of cholera in Yemen with thousands dead from it. Apparently there are some places where they've forgotten about the fairies entirely.
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Old 02-07-2017, 15:12   #129
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Re: World Wide Pump Out?

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Meanwhile, the UN is somewhat upset about 200,000 current cases of cholera in Yemen with thousands dead from it. Apparently there are some places where they've forgotten about the fairies entirely.
Yeah that "somewhat" sounds about right
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