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Old 13-05-2015, 05:42   #31
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

Butane and Propane have different boiling temperatures, hence they require different regulators. Tank pressure is directly related to temperature, i.e. tanks are not pressurized like a scuba tank, if temperature falls below the boiling point, there is no pressure in the tank. Butane boils at ~30 degrees F, propane boils at ~-44 degrees F, hence butane is useless below 30 degrees.

Typically, a stove requires no modification, but an oven burner may need to adjust the air mix for proper burn.
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Old 13-05-2015, 06:32   #32
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

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Butane and Propane have different boiling temperatures, hence they require different regulators. Tank pressure is directly related to temperature, i.e. tanks are not pressurized like a scuba tank, if temperature falls below the boiling point, there is no pressure in the tank. Butane boils at ~30 degrees F, propane boils at ~-44 degrees F, hence butane is useless below 30 degrees.

Typically, a stove requires no modification, but an oven burner may need to adjust the air mix for proper burn.
Wait... What? So propane is useless below ~44 degrees F?????
Not according to my winter experience in British Columbia. We had snow/ice on the decks. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. Maybe the locals sold the proper mix of propane/butane so people didn't have problems?

So switching to the So'Pacific -

Many cruisers (like us) have/bought different fittings and tubes and figured out how to fill from the "locally purchased tank" to our boat tanks. Hint: Do it on shore by the beach with cold beer at hand. Safer that way - and more enjoyable. {Yes, dear, I'll redo that bright work just as soon as I finish refilling the tanks. Might take a day or so... }

Anyway: Cautionary tale: Bought new tanks in New Zealand because my tanks were out of date. Should have painted the damn things the moment I got them aboard! Oops... Two years later in Am/Samoa I chipped and scrapped and treated and painted.... Then again bought new ones. Bah.
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Old 13-05-2015, 07:05   #33
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

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Originally Posted by svmariane View Post
Wait... What? So propane is useless below ~44 degrees F?????
I think you missed the - (minus) 44 degrees F


Butane doesn't work below +30 degrees F

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Originally Posted by svmariane View Post
Not according to my winter experience in British Columbia. We had snow/ice on the decks. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. Maybe the locals sold the proper mix of propane/butane so people didn't have problems?

So switching to the So'Pacific -

Many cruisers (like us) have/bought different fittings and tubes and figured out how to fill from the "locally purchased tank" to our boat tanks. Hint: Do it on shore by the beach with cold beer at hand. Safer that way - and more enjoyable. {Yes, dear, I'll redo that bright work just as soon as I finish refilling the tanks. Might take a day or so... }

Anyway: Cautionary tale: Bought new tanks in New Zealand because my tanks were out of date. Should have painted the damn things the moment I got them aboard! Oops... Two years later in Am/Samoa I chipped and scrapped and treated and painted.... Then again bought new ones. Bah.
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Old 13-05-2015, 09:57   #34
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

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Wait... What? So propane is useless below ~44 degrees F?????
Not according to my winter experience in British Columbia. We had snow/ice on the decks. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. Maybe the locals sold the proper mix of propane/butane so people didn't have problems?

So switching to the So'Pacific -

Many cruisers (like us) have/bought different fittings and tubes and figured out how to fill from the "locally purchased tank" to our boat tanks. Hint: Do it on shore by the beach with cold beer at hand. Safer that way - and more enjoyable. {Yes, dear, I'll redo that bright work just as soon as I finish refilling the tanks. Might take a day or so... }

Anyway: Cautionary tale: Bought new tanks in New Zealand because my tanks were out of date. Should have painted the damn things the moment I got them aboard! Oops... Two years later in Am/Samoa I chipped and scrapped and treated and painted.... Then again bought new ones. Bah.
Yes, I believe the mix Propane-Butane is adapted to local temperatures.
Possibly up to 100% Propane in extremely cold climates.

Sorry to read about your rusted cylinders, composite are a great improvement, corrosion wise but also much lighter.
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Old 13-05-2015, 13:44   #35
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

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I think you missed the - (minus) 44 degrees F


Butane doesn't work below +30 degrees F
Oops...
Seems my reading comprehension skill took a walk-about.


(I'm just going to slink away now.......)
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Old 13-05-2015, 14:50   #36
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

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it's been 30mBar working with either butane or propane since 2004 in Europe.
Times change...

My research about propane was done while in the UK in 1998 (I was writing an article for a newsletter), when the propane regulators were set to 37mb. It is interesting to learn that it has been changed, and to the US standard as well. The downside is that one can't make assumptions about what is installed in an older boat.

Greg
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Old 13-05-2015, 22:17   #37
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

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Butane and Propane have different boiling temperatures, hence they require different regulators.
So what do you use with a butane/propane mix?

European regs spec just one regulator for both gasses on boats/caravans output set at 30mBar.
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Old 13-05-2015, 22:37   #38
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

30mbar will be fine for mixes. Be aware that when using mixes there may be times when you may get pure butane or pure propane, but as long as your stove is good for both you are fine. In theory the mixture is the ratio of partial pressures of the two gases and will vaporize evenly until gone; in practice mixtures aren't perfect so you may end up with just one at the end of the tank. It shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 13-05-2015, 22:55   #39
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

Dunno what the OP's plans are but if just spending a short time in NewCal why not just buy an el cheapo two burner portable unit that takes the local bottles
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Old 14-05-2015, 04:32   #40
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

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Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
……………..

The only noticeable difference is that the flame of butane is a bit more yellowish.
It can be seen only in total darkness.

Should an air adjustment be needed either the bottom of sauce pans would turn black : Not enough air-poor combustion (rich) = soot.
Not the case.

If too much air, when on turn down position, flamme would go out (lean combustion).
It does not either.

The adjusting screw is often hidden inside the axis of the gaz tap/knob.
You need to pull the plastic knob to get access to it…………...
Are you sure the adjustment screw inside the axis of the knob adjusts the gas/air ratio?
I have always understood this adjustment screw only controls the minimum setting of the control knob. Put another way, it adjusts how low you can turn down the flame.
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Old 14-05-2015, 05:26   #41
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

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Are you sure the adjustment screw inside the axis of the knob adjusts the gas/air ratio?
I have always understood this adjustment screw only controls the minimum setting of the control knob. Put another way, it adjusts how low you can turn down the flame.
"Playing" with this screw, I noticed changes in flame colour.
So I deducted that it had something to do with air/gaz ratio.
(You see me puzzled here).


I had switched from Propane to Butane, with old std (I learnt here that now it is 30 mbars worldwide) regulators 28-37mbars)

That said, you are correct, it also alters how low you can go on turn down position.

Depending on adjustement, the flame can go out on "simmer position", so one has to be careful.

Thinking aloud here, it could just has well modify gaz flow (instead of air), with the same consequence : adjusting gaz/air ratio instead of air/gaz ratio.


Edit : observations based on MY german Franke 2 burners gaz "cooker" (without oven).
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Old 16-05-2015, 05:47   #42
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Re: Will my LPG Stove work with Butane

Well I was down at the hardware shop looking for a level indication sticker to put on the bottle and there were none to be found (gas cylinders all seem to be swap n go, so who's going to put a sticker on them) but there were 2 different fittings there that enabled me to connect a Butane bottle to an LPG regulator.

So I brought them and a bottle of Butane. Connected them to my boat stove and it worked perfectly. Boiled some water to give it time to go wrong but in the end I couldn't tell the difference from using Propane. I know theoretically there is a difference but it was not apparent in boiling the kettle. Now ambient temperature here today was probably 25 deg C.

Vapour pressure for Butane at 25 deg C is about 20 psi as against propane being 123 psi. My gear is set up for propane, which always has a higher vapor pressure for a given temperature when compared to Butane so there shouldn't be a problem due to over pressurising the system if I use Butane. The output on my regulator is also adjustable so I can wind it up or down if needed.

The only problem I can see is if I was to try and use the Butane in a colder climate where the Vapour pressure dropped below the Regulator Inlet working pressure.

I have previously stripped down my stove valves and there is no adjustment on them for air mixture. The air mix is done closer to the burner and there is also no adjustment there.

On my stove there is a small screw just to one side of the Knob shaft which has a very small orifice through the centre (at the end) and a hole coming in from the side. I believe this is what sets the amount of gas for when the burner is set to its lowest setting. Bit like the idle screw on a carburettor.

Possibly changing the size of the orifice where that gas squirts out prior to reaching the burner might be a way of changing the air/gas mixture, but I'll leave it be for now as all seems good.

Thanks for your help everyone as I have learnt something new. (and still learning)
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