Who makes West Marine's Fresh Water Pumps?

[lorenzo b]

Endoftheroad,
Please accept my apologies for being rude yesterday, I was having a bad day.

[Canibul]

nice to find a collection of pump experts gathered here, because I need some advice. Sureflo pump on our freshwater system stopped working. I haven't taken it apart yet, but it was immersed in sea water so I fear for the worst.

I'm not in a bind because I have another pump in the other hull with 100 gallons. But if I'm going to replace this Shurflo, it would be nice to know the consensus on the quality. Should I just buy another shurflo or is another brand markedly superior?

Is there any advantage to going to a larger sized pump if available? Would that be better flow and more consistent water pressure? Or is staying with the original size a better idea with old plumbing?

[a64pilot]

I'm no expert, but I'm partial to these, easy to fix, last a long time, can be run dry, self prime, etc.
http://www.hopkins-carter.com/jabsco...6950-2000.html

[HopCar]

EOTR, That is a pretty boat. Mr. Herreshoff really knew how to draw boats.
Is the white haired gentleman the PO? Is the pretty young lady your boss?

A64 thanks for the link! Those are wonderful simple pumps. If you take one apart you can actually understand how it works. Unfortunately sales have dropped to the point that Jabsco doesn't intend to replace the tooling to make it when the tooling wears out. We should be able to get them for a few more years.

The new thing is the variable speed pumps which eliminate the need for an accumulator tank.

ShurFlo had problems with theirs and discontinued it. They now make a pump that has a by-pass circuit that allows the pump to run full speed and diverts any excess water back to the pump intake. This also allows you to eliminate the accumulator tank.

[Jim Cate]

Those are wonderful simple pumps. If you take one apart you can actually understand how it works. Unfortunately sales have dropped to the point that Jabsco doesn't intend to replace the tooling to make it when the tooling wears out. We should be able to get them for a few more years.

What a pity. Those pumps are as near to bullet proof as pumps get. We used them for water sampling out on Bikini atoll for years. Left outside in salt spray whilst we were off-island, when we would return months later they were a mass of rust and quite seized up. Some WD-40 or equivalent, a few twists with channel locks to break loose the mechanism and off they would go. As a yottie, I was appalled, but the sampling team assured me that they would work, and they bloody well did. The Jabsco diaphragm pressure pump on our previous boat was nearly thirty years old when we sold her, and that pump was still going strong. Had replaced the pressure switch once and the diaphragm once. Didn't look pristine, but the water kept flowing.

My experience with the more modern wobble plate pumps is that they are not so rugged and long lived, so I'm sad to learn of this economics driven decision by Jabsco. Progress is so unforgiving!

Jim

[colemj]

We have been through 3 Shurflo variable speed pumps in 6 years. They are fantastic when they work, and we REALLY like the variable speed pump, but would not get another Shurflo. When I looked to replace it, I found that they stopped making them, like HopCar said. I also had a problem finding current model Jabsco variable speeds, and suspect they were also problematic.

After reading through RV forums about horror stories with the Shurflo failures, all those guys seem to change over to Remco Aquajet variable speed pumps, and the complaints stop with this one: Remco 55AQUAJET-ARV Aquajet RV Variable Speed Water Pump Hard to find anyone having a problem with it at all - everyone seems happy.

These don't seem to appear at all in the marine market, but they are big in other markets. Don't know why they are not "marine", unless they are rebranded under a different name for that market.

So we just bought one and will be installing it when we return to the boat in a month. Hope it works and lasts because did I mention that we REALLY like the variable speed pumps?

Mark

[HopCar]

"Those pumps are as near to bullet proof as pumps get."
Jim, I have to disagree with you on that. I've repaired too many of them to believe it.

I will say they are easy and cheap to repair. Usually you just put new valves in.

There are bearings to fail in the drive system, the diaphragms stretch out, the pulsation dampeners collapse, the belts stretch, and if you look at it wrong that Bakelite housing will crack. Oh yeah, they're noisy.

They were designed back in the 1930's by a company called Peters and Russell. That's why the are called PAR pumps.

All that said, at least you could fix them. I won't mess with these modern swash plate pumps. If it quits, replace it.

I think if Jabsco would address some of the issues I've mentioned and used a more modern plastic for the base, they could sell a bunch of them. Except for the pressure switch, not much has changed on these since Misters Peters and Russell designed them.

[sailorchic34]

minor thread drift ahead

So, I'm wondering if anyone has measured the parasitic loss on the VSD pumps. As they have a micro controller and a pressure sensor and not a on/off pressure switch, there should be a small amp draw from these pumps even when they are not pumping.

As the manufactures have somehow left that detail out of their datasheets, I'm wondering if some one will measure the mA load on the pump circuit with the pump off and let me know what that reading is. It's probably only 10-15 mA but the engineer in me is curious.

[colemj]

I'm not sure they draw anything at all. They have a pressure switch which has an on/off mechanism (it "clicks" at the end of its travel, and this point is adjustable). When the pressure drops enough to activate the switch, the pump quickly ramps from low speed to high speed, seems to do some sort of quick calculation, then sits on a particular speed.

I haven't measured one, but if it is drawing current, it is less than the 100mA that our battery meter measures.

Mark

[Canibul]

So, being "non-marine", do you think it would be a good idea to spray one down with CRC or Corrosion X after installation?

[colemj]

Don't know - the pump head is nylon, the fasteners are stainless and the motor is sealed. The only unknown (I don't have the pump yet) is the composition and finish of the motor body. Even if that is unprotected mild steel, that won't be much of an issue where ours is mounted. We have several other steel-bodied motors on the boat and have never needed to spray them with anything.

Mark

[Canibul]

I have to spray exposed hinges and locks at my house if I want to get more than about three years out of them. And they're all stainless.

[sailorchic34]

I expect that the click one hears when the vsd pump starts is a relay closing and not a pressure switch. This as the pressure sensor is of course solid state. Pressure is adusted via a pot most likely.

The idea that a micro-controller has to be powered up on a pressure switch that then senses pressure with a pressure sensor, well it boggles the mind that it would work so.

I know everyone thinks these things are the best thing since sliced bread, but I expect they have a fairly short lifetime in years.

I remain interested in the standby power amp draw.. It's probably only 50 mA but that's still close to an amp a day wasted.

That engineering thingy tells me it has to have a standby loss, what with a microcontrolller and solid state pressure sensor to control the speed. I've designed and speced a few in the 1000-1200 GPM range, so know a tiny bit about them.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by HopCar

"Yep...Xylem makes Jabsco, Surflo and Rule pumps."
One small correction, Xylem makes Jabsco, FloJet, Rule and some others.
They don't make ShurFlo. I think it's a company called Pentair that makes ShurFlo and Sherwood pumps.

good catch....
I was thinking FlowJet but Surflo came out.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I remain interested in the standby power amp draw.. It's probably only 50 mA but that's still close to an amp a day wasted..

Wanna see Amps wasted...come on over to my boat...

Just as I waste the power playing around on the internet at 9PM here tonight, my son is in his room watching football videos of his team on the internet (burning through my monthly WiFi like a hot knife through butter and my wife is in the upper salon doing heavens knows what on her laptop....
I gave in and put up 1380W of solar and a 400AH LiFePO4 battery bank and now I don't care...