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Old 08-12-2012, 12:15   #76
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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OK, confusion in the threads. I always thought the way some of the Deerfoots are setup with a separate small diesel that runs WM, genset, and hydraulics direct drive made a lot of sense.
No problem Paul, just be clear I know they use a "little" more PER LITRE.

Question... is this a problem vs High Tech???????????

CeesH
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:34   #77
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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No problem Paul, just be clear I know they use a "little" more PER LITRE.

Question... is this a problem vs High Tech???????????

CeesH
There is not just a "little" difference between the power consumption of "energy recovery" watermakers and a conventional watermaker.

For example the Spectra Newport 400 makes 62L an hour at 26A @ 12v DC.

The non energy recovery Sea Maker pro (that has been quoted in this thread) makes 75L an hour at 106A @ 12v ( ignoring inverter inefficiencies and Peukerts equation, which will increase the effective consumption further )

I think "substantial", or at least "significant" would be more appropriate adjectives.

If you are running the watermaker from a generator, or maybe the main engine with a couple of high powered alternators these power consumption differences are immaterial, but they are very significant when operating a watermaker at other times.
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Old 08-12-2012, 13:04   #78
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

I learned old school...one of the first things I learned was "every system on a boat will at sometime fail" and you should expect that. When recently I tried to "pick the brains" of a boat in from Australia by way of Japan....I asked them to look at my boat a give me their opinion. First question asked was "What do you have for rain catchment". Several of my on land jobs used big reverse osmosis systems and even used every day making tap water useable for the laboratory they were temperamental. A small system on a boat filtering seawater needs to be used regularly, have back up membranes and a manual over ride....even then you should have enough of a water supply on board in case of complete failure. I will probably get a manual system for my ditch bag (which includes emergency water supply on the boat). My filtration system on my boat is 5micron filter followed by a 0.2micron ceramic....small enough to remove water born biologics. As far as how to power a water maker (with out using fuel) there is solar, wind and tow behind (company called "waterlog"). It's best to top off your water when ever you have a chance, you might not be able to do it on the day you planned to.
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Old 08-12-2012, 13:16   #79
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

Back ups are essential on a cruising boat.
Deck rainwater catchment is a great alternative. It is however very climate dependent, but nevertheless it is a great alternative. If possible both a watermaker and deck rainwater collection are great backups.
The alternative is lugging generally poor quality water from shore, or interrupting the peaceful anchorages, and instead berthing at marinas (aka caravan park )
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Old 08-12-2012, 13:37   #80
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

Somewhere I read (I think it was David Parker's book "Ocean Voyaging") "Every system on a boat will a cruising sailor should have the knowledge, tools and parts to repair those systems with out any outside help". Of all the books I have the most informative are 50,60&70 years old.....somethings just don't change, just the the view points.
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Old 08-12-2012, 13:54   #81
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

Ceesh,

You are right, i can call several people and get a lot of information, some of it not available to the public. What I can't get is what user have had of personal experiences.

I ran a couple of their companies here in europe and retired about ten years ago. Parker did own Racor back then, but not VM (?) watermakers, so I don't have a personal connection there. But I still am interested in anyone with personal experience



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Hi Carsten,

You has been an executive ( fairly high up in the organisation) for Parker, it must be a one phone call problem to achieve more information as they will ever tell us...................

Good luck, have my ideas obout this topic.

CeesH
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Old 08-12-2012, 13:55   #82
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
There is not just a "little" difference between the power consumption of "energy recovery" watermakers and a conventional watermaker.

For example the Spectra Newport 400 makes 62L an hour at 26A @ 12v DC.

The non energy recovery Sea Maker pro (that has been quoted in this thread) makes 75L an hour at 106A @ 12v ( ignoring inverter inefficiencies and Peukerts equation, which will increase the effective consumption further )

I think "substantial", or at least "significant" would be more appropriate adjectives.

If you are running the watermaker from a generator, or maybe the main engine with a couple of high powered alternators these power consumption differences are immaterial, but they are very significant when operating a watermaker at other times.
]

Al depends what you want. Hi Tech means Broken IS Broken till the CHECKBOOK GUES come aboard. Low Tech means, broken till you WANT to repair....

What is the value of your MONEY?????

My 2 centavos or euro cents (I think at this moment about the same value :-) )

CeesH
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Old 08-12-2012, 14:06   #83
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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:-)-----------------------------------
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard -)-------------------------------

I spend ALL my money on CERVEJA, MULERES and BARCOS...... For the rest, its a lot warmer over here....... :-)))))))
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Old 08-12-2012, 14:09   #84
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Ceesh,

You are right, i can call several people and get a lot of information, some of it not available to the public. What I can't get is what user have had of personal experiences.

I ran a couple of their companies here in europe and retired about ten years ago. Parker did own Racor back then, but not VM (?) watermakers, so I don't have a personal connection there. But I still am interested in anyone with personal experience
Village Marine watermakers use a proprietary membrane that requires you to purchase a new one through Parker at a high price. The 12v systems are average power efficiency, but that puts it almost twice a Spectra. Mine has been reliable with a lot of use over the past 2 1/2 years. When I moved it to our new boat, instead of putting in a Parker/VM new membrane I bought a standard size membrane housing and new standard membrane and plumbed it into the VM system. Rumor has it that support from VM is way down now that Parker owns them.
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Old 08-12-2012, 14:46   #85
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Rumor has it that support from VM is way down now that Parker owns them.
It is pretty much non-existent. For the consumer, Parker's ownership of VM is unfortunate (the military is probably better off now).

Parker voided all lifetime guarantees and warrantees when they bought VM. I sent our lifetime guaranteed titanium HP pump back to VM (at the time) for a routine rebuild. They forgot to use locktite on the critical threads of the plunger (as explicitly noted in bold italics in their pump rebuild manual) and the pump destroyed itself in a couple of weeks use.

I contacted VM and told them the problem. They said "no problem - lifetime guarantee - send it back and we will send you a new one". This was one week before Parker bought them. After not receiving a new pump in a couple of weeks, I contacted them and they told me they had been bought out by Parker and were instructed to no longer honoring any of VM's warrantees. Their new warranty is 30 days on any system or part.

They told me my lifetime HP pump guarantee (with certificate containing fancy scroll work in several colors and inserted in a special plastic sleeve separate from the owner's manual) was now worth less than toilet paper, but I was free to buy a new HP pump from them for $1200, which was a $300 discount from the "normal" price.

When I explained that the pump was ruined because of VM's service error (and this is easily proved, and even admitted to by VM), they said they were now Parker and not VM, so they didn't make the error.

Keep in mind that personnel had not changed - only the name. So apparently the same guy who worked for VM and was a nice chap who admitted a mistake and was following up on a warranty became a completely different, but same, guy who now works for Parker.

Actually, that guy was so apologetic to me that he was almost in tears when explaining that his hands were tied, Parker came in and ripped the place apart, set up strict rules on how things would proceed with customers, and no one was happy anymore.

Long story short, I recommend staying as far away from Parker (VM) as possible. When we replace our watermaker (we want a higher capacity), VM will not even be thought of...

Mark
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Old 08-12-2012, 14:57   #86
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Tellie,

What do you think about Parker Racor? The reason I ask is I used to be an executive ( fairly high up in the organisation) for Parker. Beforemthey started making watermakers. I still have lots of executive contacts there..

Looking at the website, seems their smallest produces 145 gallons per day or 6 gallons pernhour. I couldn't find an electricity usage.

Do you like them? Hownaremtheybre: noise? Etc etc etc......

Thanks in advance
We have the VM (now Parker) 150 gal/day "Little Wonder" watermaker. It uses 17A (including the feedpump), makes the stated 6 gal/hr at 13.8V and runs very quietly. Much more quiet than all others of this size I have heard. As quiet as the similar sized Spectra, but a different type of noise (the Spectra has a very distinct sound).

It is a 1994 model, but was stored for 8 yrs in the middle of its life. One new membrane (luckily the older models used standard sizes) and one new HP pump (see my other post - this wasn't necessary). We use it daily now.

See my other post about how I feel about Parker's ownership...

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Old 08-12-2012, 16:17   #87
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

All that I will add to this discussion is that TELLIE is THE recognized authority on watermakers on this forum. He has built more than a dozen from scratch and while he is a Dealer he sells more than one brand and has a vast knowledge on the subject across numerous brands.

He really knows his stuff and you could not find anyone more helpful & he was a wealth of knowledge who provided heaps of assistance through the decision process for a watermaker that we recently purchased which was a much higher capacity than the type being discussed here so I will not go into it (for those who are interested you can search for it).

Most but not all others who are commenting only have exposure to the watermaker on their vessel or maybe from those they have read about.

So what I am saying is to give the most weight to advice that Tellie gives you as the whole process can get very confusing with lots of different watermaker brands being thrown into the mix.

Hey Tellie, BTW I have found a recent photo of you at the wheel of your boat which I thought I would share below.

All the best, Steve
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Old 08-12-2012, 16:41   #88
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Sea1js the website you quote lists the power consumption for the watermaker at 9.3A @ 120v (this is approximately the same as 93A @12v) plus the low pressure feed pump at
13.3A @ 12v)
Given these figures the consumption is over 100A.

I suspect your Link 2000 is reading the consumption only of the DC feed pump.

This needs to fixed, otherwise you are seriously depleting you batteries much more than your battery monitor is showing.

I think your inverter is wired directly to batteries, bypassing the Link 200 shunt. This is giving you a very false impression of the power consumption. The risk is you may drain your batteries much more than is healthy, without this being reflected on the Link 2000 battery monitor.

I am sure that your watermaker is consuming a lot more than 11A @ 12 v. Probably about 10x this amount.
Duh .... Yes of course you're correct. I didn't flip a switch on the panel that I needed to. Should have realized that was the wrong reading right away. amps = watts / volts ... again Duh! Never the less I'm very happy with the system and hopefully this dialogue will help anyone who is wrestling with this kind of decision.
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Old 08-12-2012, 17:19   #89
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle View Post
All that I will add to this discussion is that TELLIE is THE recognized authority on watermakers on this forum. He has built more than a dozen from scratch and while he is a Dealer he sells more than one brand and has a vast knowledge on the subject across numerous brands.

He really knows his stuff and you could not find anyone more helpful & he was a wealth of knowledge who provided heaps of assistance through the decision process for a watermaker that we recently purchased which was a much higher capacity than the type being discussed here so I will not go into it (for those who are interested you can search for it).

Most but not all others who are commenting only have exposure to the watermaker on their vessel or maybe from those they have read about.

So what I am saying is to give the most weight to advice that Tellie gives you as the whole process can get very confusing with lots of different watermaker brands being thrown into the mix.

Hey Tellie, BTW I have found a recent photo of you at the wheel of your boat which I thought I would share below.

All the best, Steve

Love the pic Steve, looks like time for an Avatar change. Thanks for the great compliments.
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Old 08-12-2012, 17:33   #90
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle View Post
All that I will add to this discussion is that TELLIE is THE recognized authority on watermakers on this forum. He has built more than a dozen from scratch and while he is a Dealer he sells more than one brand and has a vast knowledge on the subject across numerous brands.

He really knows his stuff and you could not find anyone more helpful & he was a wealth of knowledge who provided heaps of assistance through the decision process for a watermaker that we recently purchased which was a much higher capacity than the type being discussed here so I will not go into it (for those who are interested you can search for it).

Most but not all others who are commenting only have exposure to the watermaker on their vessel or maybe from those they have read about.

So what I am saying is to give the most weight to advice that Tellie gives you as the whole process can get very confusing with lots of different watermaker brands being thrown into the mix.

Hey Tellie, BTW I have found a recent photo of you at the wheel of your boat which I thought I would share below.

All the best, Steve
Love that pic!

And you are correct about Tellie.
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