Which Watermaker To Choose

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Oh and by the way.
Come on down to the Miami Strictly Sailboat show.
We'll be raffling off a brand new Spectra at Saturday nights party.
I'll even personally buy Wolfie four arms lengths of raffle tickets if he shows up. Ya can't beat that for a really cheap efficient watermaker that will fit perfectly on a 30 footer.

I live almost as far as you can get from Miami and still be in the lower 48. Even if I wanted to go...it would not be possible. The 4 days I was in the hospital last Oct was the longest I have been away from the boat in 5 1/2 years. Thanks for the offer, but I'll make do for now (I have 90gal water storage).

[downunder]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I live almost as far as you can get from Miami and still be in the lower 48. Even if I wanted to go...it would not be possible. The 4 days I was in the hospital last Oct was the longest I have been away from the boat in 5 1/2 years. Thanks for the offer, but I'll make do for now (I have 90gal water storage).

Wolf,

I thought you said that you already had a Katalyn watermaker. Have you been using it ?

Would like to catch up with Telli in Miami but not going to happen this time. Hope to make it sometime in next year or two. Perhaps on way back to Aus from the med.

Cheers

[wolfenzee]

The more I think about it the more I realize how difficult installing a watermaker would be. It requires an extra thru hull, which mean I have to cut through a 1/4 ply=wood cieling, (then a 2" space to the hull), cut through 1" mahogany which has 3" edge nails spaced every 6", followed by fiberglass on thr outside. The boat only has one through hull below the waterline, the cooling water">engine cooling water intake/salt water rinse for galley sink (the sink drain is at the waterline and head through hull was plugged and glassed over). It is recommended to have a dedicated through hull. I do have 3 15gal carboys....I could use one of them.

[daddle]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

The more I think about it the more I realize how difficult installing a watermaker would be. It requires an extra thru hull ...

Maybe use a siphon hose which you toss over the side when making water?

[carstenb]

Silly question, I'm sure. But why not use the engine cooling intake? It is big enough, and if the watermaker is running off 12VDC then you won't be stealing cooling water (assuming you start the engine).

Tellie - what do you think?

[daddle]

Firstly because the WM makers generally say not to. Secondly on the typical boat the engine intake is barely adequate in size as it is. The pressure is apt to be negative at the thru hull, suction, which will aggravate both the WM and the engine which are often equipped with barely adequate pumps.

I once tried to tee the galley foot pump into the engine intake thinking the foot pump was used so rarely that it would make no difference. The footpump was unusable while the engine was at speed: too much suction.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Silly question, I'm sure. But why not use the engine cooling intake? It is big enough, and if the watermaker is running off 12VDC then you won't be stealing cooling water (assuming you start the engine).

Tellie - what do you think?

I think it's not a silly question because at first it may seem like a natural solution and many people have asked the same thing. But as Daddle said it creates far too much vacuum, especially for the smaller units without boost pumps and creates several problems. A lot of times you will want to make water while motoring underway and Teeing into the engine intake will eliminate the ability to do so. It really is best to have a dedicated thru hull.

[settingsun]

In reality, the best installation will have two dedicated thru-hulls, one for intake and one for outflow of the reject water (only the fresh stuff goes in the tanks).

Lots of people tap into other thru-hulls for their watermakers, but we decided that to keep things as simple as possible when troubleshooting problems down the road, we would have dedicated thru-hulls. The intake is in the bottom of the hull and the outflow is in the side of the hull. A yard installed the intake thru-hull and my sweet hubby drilled the outflow thru-hull. Scary to take a drill to the hull of the boat!!!!

Before we installed our watermaker a cruiser who had been in construction all his life told us, "This was the most complicated installation of any system I've ever done." His was a Spectra. My hubby was an electro-mechanical service engineer for 26 years, and his comment after installing ours was, "This was the most complicated system I've ever installed."

And his comment just now when I mentioned this thread, "I'm glad I don't have to do it again!!"

BUT -- today is our last day of a 3-day passage along Mexico's southern Pacific coast. The boat is covered with a thick layer of salt and spray from some crazy sailing and waves. The last 2 hours of our passage today we will be making water (60 gph) and washing the boat so it will be fresh and clean when we set up camp in our new anchorage.

There is a lot to be said for getting a BIG watermaker that is installed well without taking shortcuts.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by settingsun

In reality, the best installation will have two dedicated thru-hulls, one for intake and one for outflow of the reject water (only the fresh stuff goes in the tanks).

Lots of people tap into other thru-hulls for their watermakers, but we decided that to keep things as simple as possible when troubleshooting problems down the road, we would have dedicated thru-hulls. The intake is in the bottom of the hull and the outflow is in the side of the hull. A yard installed the intake thru-hull and my sweet hubby drilled the outflow thru-hull. Scary to take a drill to the hull of the boat!!!!

Before we installed our watermaker a cruiser who had been in construction all his life told us, "This was the most complicated installation of any system I've ever done." His was a Spectra. My hubby was an electro-mechanical service engineer for 26 years, and his comment after installing ours was, "This was the most complicated system I've ever installed."

And his comment just now when I mentioned this thread, "I'm glad I don't have to do it again!!"

BUT -- today is our last day of a 3-day passage along Mexico's southern Pacific coast. The boat is covered with a thick layer of salt and spray from some crazy sailing and waves. The last 2 hours of our passage today we will be making water (60 gph) and washing the boat so it will be fresh and clean when we set up camp in our new anchorage.

There is a lot to be said for getting a BIG watermaker that is installed well without taking shortcuts.

Installations can be tricky and time consuming. I would say perhaps 90% of first start up issues on watermakers are from poor installations and short cuts taken. I know when people see the systems at the boat shows and on the brochures they think to themselves "That looks easy enough" I try to explain to them that even I will estimate, at the least, two full days if not three days of time for me to install it and I've done a lot of installs and know more tricks to get things to fit than the average bear. I usually put in 12 hour days and I don't take breaks or stop for lunch. Plus I have a small work shop with enough tools to fabricate brackets, custom fitted supports, and a truck full of parts dedicated to watermakers and I still have to make a run every now and then to the parts store. That being said, I don't discourage owner installs, in fact I usually encourage them (With a lot of trained support). Because there is no better way to learn upfront how to maintain and trouble shoot your watermaker than installing it yourself. I do heavily discourage hiring anyone else other than the owner that is not factory trained on the particular brand of watermaker installing it. This is where after sales/install service is worth it's weight in gold doubloons and should be a factor taken into consideration when spending your money up front. I give out a lot of free advice and some may think it's worth what they paid for it. But make no mistake, I make darn good money fixing other peoples "Awe that's easy" and "You don't need those guys, I can do it cheaper" foul ups.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Silly question, I'm sure. But why not use the engine cooling intake? It is big enough, and if the watermaker is running off 12VDC then you won't be stealing cooling water (assuming you start the engine).

Tellie - what do you think?

I may be wierd, but I like to follow installation instructions, things tend to work better that way. Watermaker installation instructions stress having a dedicated through hull w/scoop (like the type used on most engine intakes). I do know of people that share engine intakes. My boat doesn't have a scoop, just a bronze strainer (round, buldging out a little with holes cast in it.)

[SV THIRD DAY]

Sharing an engine and water maker through hull is a disaster waiting to happen, quite honestly. Please don't do it, it's not worth the risk when either your engine or water maker fails while out cruising. Spend the money now to prevent massive headaches later.

I've done several installations where I've shared a galley sink foot pump, head intake or wash down through hull but in every case if you are going to share a through hull put a Y-valve in or a T with two hard on/off valves on the T branches so that you eliminate the risk of one device sucking back through the other OR both devices starving the other for flow.
When I do an installation (and I’ve done lots) I budget 2 days with the understanding that it could take longer…every installation is different just as every boat and owner preference is different. I encourage the owners to do their own installation simply because your “boat guy” won’t be cruising with you and there is no better time to learn about your water maker than during the installation and initial commissioning. And honestly, this isn’t rocket science, it’s a plumbing project with a little electrical thrown in for good measures. All things a cruiser will have to deal with on a day in and day out basis unless he has a Magic boat that never has “issues”….good luck with that pipe-dream!

Originally Posted by Tellie

Barring any unseen issues that don't seem apparent now, I'd agree and say your guess is pretty darn close.

Ah...and that's the catch...the famous black hole of the "unseen issue". If I had an extra $100 for every water maker DEAL someone bought at the marine flea market that they were going to just buy a few parts to fix that turned into an unfinished pile of parts...well I would still be in Mexico cruising!

But I did have a good time at the Miami Boat Show and I finally got to meet Tellie, which was fun.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Sharing an engine and water maker through hull is a disaster waiting to happen, quite honestly. Please don't do it, it's not worth the risk when either your engine or water maker fails while out cruising. Spend the money now to prevent massive headaches later.

I've done several installations where I've shared a galley sink foot pump, head intake or wash down through hull but in every case if you are going to share a through hull put a Y-valve in or a T with two hard on/off valves on the T branches so that you eliminate the risk of one device sucking back through the other OR both devices starving the other for flow.
When I do an installation (and I’ve done lots) I budget 2 days with the understanding that it could take longer…every installation is different just as every boat and owner preference is different. I encourage the owners to do their own installation simply because your “boat guy” won’t be cruising with you and there is no better time to learn about your water maker than during the installation and initial commissioning. And honestly, this isn’t rocket science, it’s a plumbing project with a little electrical thrown in for good measures. All things a cruiser will have to deal with on a day in and day out basis unless he has a Magic boat that never has “issues”….good luck with that pipe-dream!



Ah...and that's the catch...the famous black hole of the "unseen issue". If I had an extra $100 for every water maker DEAL someone bought at the marine flea market that they were going to just buy a few parts to fix that turned into an unfinished pile of parts...well I would still be in Mexico cruising!

But I did have a good time at the Miami Boat Show and I finally got to meet Tellie, which was fun.

The salt water rinse originally used the engine intake....but when installed used an aluminum spigot (which dissolved from inside out).

Even though I am a "do it your selfer" in alot of ways...... I am not going to buy plans off the internet and try and build a water maker on my own using available parts.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

Even though I am a "do it your selfer" in alot of ways...... I am not going to buy plans off the internet and try and build a water maker on my own using available parts.

Why pay for plans?
Just shoot me an email and I will send you a copy of our water maker manual. honestly, if you can't build your own with a copy of our manual in hand, then you can't build one anyway.

[NorthPacific]

Hi Gang,

I have a new to me KAt 40e. I saw a post on using beer cleaning solution instead of the very expensive Kat product. Anyone remember seeing the post and if so what the chemical is called.

[John Galt]

$ 8 Amazon.com