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Old 31-12-2012, 11:36   #211
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
How about go sailing and see if you find water to be an issue? You can always add one later. There's nothing like some experience to make clear to you what your own priorities really are instead of what you think they might be and what others tell you.

Auspiciuos advice above is good advice. Many people open up their wallets before gaining any real experience and insight as to what they really need and what they want. Assuming you're leaving from somewhere on the east coast of the US a trip to the Keys is a great break-in cruise with plenty of help and available water shore side to fill up. Once you gain the sailing experience you're comfortable with and you set your sights offshore then you'll be better able to determine if you want or need a watermaker.
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Old 31-12-2012, 12:52   #212
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Cruising is one thing passagemaking qnother. A contemplated atlantic crossing takes 3 weeks, figure 4 to be safe. Two persons at low usage figure 20 liters per day ( that is very low) so 500 liters for the crossing. My tanks hold 140 liters each, two tanks, toal 280 liters. Ain't gonna make it. Need to have an alternative water source.

In addition, my wife and i aren't trying to set a record for an RTW with the least resources. We want a wtermaker.
20 liters /day for low usage?
CF: Water Consumption Water Consumption
Sailnet: Cruising GPD average usage Cruising GPD water usage average - SailNet Community
ybw.com :: Water consumption estimates Water consumption estimates - Yachting and Boating World Forums

20 lpd does seem a bit excessive, but if you have a high capacity water maker you either have to use it regularly or "pickle it" between uses.
To those who shy away from the idea of a water-maker from the exorbinate costs of a high capacity system, the type that belong on a power boat w/dishwasher, laundry machine & daily showers of the sort taken on land...there are inexpensive/small/reliable/low power draw systems
like the aforementioned Survivor 40E
http://shop.katadyn.com/product/1551...rvivor_40E12_V
if you look around you can find the complete system including accessories (extra membranes, maintenance kit & "pickling") for around $4000 or less.
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Old 31-12-2012, 13:17   #213
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

Regarding pickling, I just wrote this in another thread, but it seems appropriate here as well:

Quote:
Take this for what it's worth: The Spectra "Catalina" aboard VALIS has been in place for over ten years, and does not have the Z-Brane. I only use the watermaker very occasionally, during my bi-annual trips to Hawaii. It spends long intervals not being used, and has *never* been pickled.

The only maintenance I do is annual filter replacement (or more often if we use it when in a thick plankton patch), and the occasional fresh-water flush. I never let salt water sit in the watermaker for more than a day, so I usually flush it after every use. When laid-up, I flush it perhaps once a month.

The production rate is still essentially as it was when new, the TDS numbers are great, and the product water is great. Your mileage may vary, but for me the fresh-water flush seems to be all it needs.
At a boat show Spectra dealer once told be a similar story about his watermaker -- he doesn't pickle it either.
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Old 31-12-2012, 14:38   #214
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

Well no one needs a watermaker. People have been cruising a lot longer than RO units for small boats have been around.

But I would bet if all little reasons for not having one are tossed out, that everyone wants a watermaker.

It didn't take me long to figure out that a lot of happiness on a boat revolves around water (this started back in the Navy when showers would get secured because we needed the water for other uses). Since I don't stay at a slip, even with my normal weekend type cruising water is a problem. Not because I can not get it, but because it is such a PITA to go get it (each time it is 2 hours of lost time sailing).

I can not image that people cruising on the hook really want to meter out water on the boat, or pull up the anchor that was nice and set to go to the dock, or to dinghy jugs back and forth all the time to get water.
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Old 31-12-2012, 14:48   #215
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
20 liters /day for low usage?
CF: Water Consumption Water Consumption
Sailnet: Cruising GPD average usage Cruising GPD water usage average - SailNet Community
ybw.com :: Water consumption estimates Water consumption estimates - Yachting and Boating World Forums

20 lpd does seem a bit excessive, but if you have a high capacity water maker you either have to use it regularly or "pickle it" between uses.
To those who shy away from the idea of a water-maker from the exorbinate costs of a high capacity system, the type that belong on a power boat w/dishwasher, laundry machine & daily showers of the sort taken on land...there are inexpensive/small/reliable/low power draw systems
like the aforementioned Survivor 40E
Katadyn Products Inc. Select Country
if you look around you can find the complete system including accessories (extra membranes, maintenance kit & "pickling") for around $4000 or less.

Why go that way for someone contemplating a new purchase when you can get a 20gal/hr for less money or 30gal/hr for a thousand more?? with CruiseRO for one. Could not recomment it at 1.5 gal/hour. Very poor value.
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Old 31-12-2012, 15:22   #216
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Why go that way for someone contemplating a new purchase when you can get a 20gal/hr for less money or 30gal/hr for a thousand more?? with CruiseRO for one. Could not recomment it at 1.5 gal/hour. Very poor value.

I agree, with all the choices today 1.5 gph is very poor value.
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Old 31-12-2012, 15:26   #217
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Regarding pickling, I just wrote this in another thread, but it seems appropriate here as well:

At a boat show Spectra dealer once told be a similar story about his watermaker -- he doesn't pickle it either.
Yes, same here, never pickled. Many years. Just regular fresh water flushes. Works fine.

I still wish there was a very low volume, low power, low noise watermaker. It could simply run all the time, or while the sun was shining. One gallon an hour for one amp-hour would be plenty. It would always be fresh.
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Old 31-12-2012, 15:50   #218
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

If you fresh water flush any watermaker on the recommended regular basis you don't have to pickle it. But leaving them unflushed for six months at a time is asking for real trouble real soon.
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Old 31-12-2012, 17:44   #219
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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If you fresh water flush any watermaker on the recommended regular basis you don't have to pickle it. But leaving them unflushed for six months at a time is asking for real trouble real soon.
Another nice bit of valuable information.

What does pickling actually do to the membrane? As I've read that pickling reduces its life. True or false?
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Old 31-12-2012, 18:43   #220
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Cruising is one thing passagemaking qnother. A contemplated atlantic crossing takes 3 weeks, figure 4 to be safe. Two persons at low usage figure 20 liters per day ( that is very low) so 500 liters for the crossing. My tanks hold 140 liters each, two tanks, toal 280 liters. Ain't gonna make it. Need to have an alternative water source.

In addition, my wife and i aren't trying to set a record for an RTW with the least resources. We want a wtermaker.

Long passages like the Atlantic crossing or Panama to the Marquesas require a serious change in boat procedures and planning for the worst. Way before the watermaker, you need to increase your water tankage or at least buy some water jerry cans and have some basic system ready to collect rain water; you can't rely on 2 x 140 L tanks to cross an ocean. Doing this is not only prudent long passage safety procedure it's also a hell of a lot cheaper than a water maker. If you get struck by lightning or are dismasted or have a damaged rudder or the water maker breaks down and you've depleted your water tanks because you were relying on a water maker, then you are in a very serious situation. You need to always leave one tank (or 5 X 20L jerry cans stowed in the lazarette) full in case of such emergencies..... emergency drinking water. In case you're out there for 8 weeks, not 3 or 4.

If you have a water maker as well, then bonus......
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Old 31-12-2012, 23:17   #221
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:54   #222
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Why go that way for someone contemplating a new purchase when you can get a 20gal/hr for less money or 30gal/hr for a thousand more?? with CruiseRO for one. Could not recomment it at 1.5 gal/hour. Very poor value.
There is a thread on Sailnet What is the age of your boat? - SailNet Community"what is the age of your boat" 75.3% of the boats in the poll are 20-30 years old (4% are under 5). For those that can afford to go out and buy a brand new 6 figure boat with all the gadgets and gizmos available, who an extra thousand or so is not an issue....for the rest of us who either can't afford such luxuries and/or would rather put the money to something more important (hmm...should I by a bigger water-maker or a new mainsail)
When I asked some questions of a boat that came in from Australia by way of Japan, the first questioned asked of my boat, "what do you have in the way of water catchment". Realistic/conservative water usage is not a hardship....water usage on land as well as power and every thing else is extremely wasteful. You can live very comfortably on a boat using a fraction of the resources "required" to live on land.
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Old 01-01-2013, 14:14   #223
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

So how much will a Spectra 150 run me? Thinking about getting one.
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Old 01-01-2013, 14:25   #224
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

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So how much will a Spectra 150 run me? Thinking about getting one.
Ventura 150 and 200 Series Watermakers
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:55   #225
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Re: Which Watermaker To Choose

BAck up there somewhere I noted that I was figuring 20 liters a day for the two for us passage making. Some feel this is a lot of water.

BAsic minimum water needed for survival only = 2 liters per person per day in the tropics. Cooking dish rinse, showering (rinse off) etc will take more.

While I certainly intend to have a rain catchment device, I do not want to run out of water out there. So yes, I feel a watermaker is a necessity for passage making, not a luxury. I know some sail without it. Good for them.

I also don't feel the need to have to lug numerous jerry cans full of water across beaches and dinghy them back out to the boat.

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