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Old 18-12-2014, 05:54   #16
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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Originally Posted by The Way View Post
MdR -- yeah, that's been my experience too! Which is why I wonder what the upside is.

BTW, you forgot about poking yourself in the eye with the screwdriver!

Thanks,
Jack
I also guess than none of needed to mention the mandatory dropping of the driver when the handle end is being use opposite of you...

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I believe it's to equalize out the tightening, if you believe that a hose has some give and friction between the hose and the clamp, then the part of the hose on the screw side is tighter.

Does it matter, I think not, it's more of a workmanship pride in "doing things right" like keeping the engine room as clean or cleaner than the Galley.
The nut drivers will make you life much easier though, and if you just won't use them, at least get clamps that will accept a Phillips screw driver, straight slot screws ought to be illegal, I hate the things.
It's just the way I've always done it... Somebody taught me at some point I suppose...
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Old 18-12-2014, 06:51   #17
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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I believe it's to equalize out the tightening ...
A non-perforated (embossed) hose clamp (AWAB, ABA, Ideal, & Norma) translates the torque applied to the worm gear into a clamping force that is equally distributed around the circumference of the band.
Inexpensive hose clamps have bands with stamped-out slots, the edges of which dig in and drag against the hose, holding that part of the band in place — while the non-perforated edge of the band moves more easily, so it’s pulled in more. This results in less clamping force under the slots and too much where the band is smooth.
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Old 18-12-2014, 07:01   #18
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
A non-perforated (embossed) hose clamp (AWAB, ABA, Ideal, & Norma) translates the torque applied to the worm gear into a clamping force that is equally distributed around the circumference of the band.
Inexpensive hose clamps have bands with stamped-out slots, the edges of which dig in and drag against the hose, holding that part of the band in place — while the non-perforated edge of the band moves more easily, so it’s pulled in more. This results in less clamping force under the slots and too much where the band is smooth.
Gord, thanks for this. What's the source? Sounds as if there might be more useful info where that came from.

Anyone know why embossed clamps should be more expensive? It would seem cheaper to do than making slots. (Or maybe this is getting too far from the thread topic.)

Jack
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Old 18-12-2014, 09:13   #19
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

Don't think cost comes into it, I have seen poor clamps at high prices in chancelleries and good ones cheap in building supply shops and the other way round. But really, for below waterline fittings, are you bothered about cost?
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Old 18-12-2014, 09:49   #20
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Working in the engine "room" today. In the pan I found the screw assembly of a hose clamp.

Looking. Looking. Looking

Stuffed if I can find the broken hose clamp
Perhaps a previous owner or mechanic left it there when replacing a clamp.
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Old 18-12-2014, 09:52   #21
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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Cheap source of good hose clamps?
In most cases you get what you pay for. "Cheap" and "good" are mutually exclusive.

If I need a clamp or two I go to West Marine and buy the good ones. If I need a bunch or have other stuff to buy I order from defender.
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Old 18-12-2014, 09:54   #22
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

Some good advice already given. When I buy mine I check them with a magnet as the screws are often mild steel whilst the bands can be 316.

I bought several boxes of various sizes in Durban (South Africa) of really good quality - sadly the boxes are neraly empty after many years.
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Old 18-12-2014, 10:03   #23
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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I like these clamps for the safety factor, strong and have a positive all round pressure on the hose. I don't end up stabbing myself with the screwdriver.
Yeah, these aircraft style clamps are the best... expensive though..... It would be nice if insurance companies and ABYC recognized how good they are and allowed a single clamp if that style is used....
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Old 18-12-2014, 10:24   #24
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

Regarding cheap sources, I always do a fresh internet search before buying as it seems the suppliers take turns being the cheapest.

Regarding which clamps to use, Practical Sailor thoroughly tested SS hose clamps in their Feb-2014 issue.

Stainless-steel Hose Clamps - Practical Sailor Article

They ranked AWAB and ABA brands as their 'best choice.'
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Old 18-12-2014, 10:29   #25
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

Practical Sailor tested hose clamps and recommended ABA and AWAB, as well as Shields and Trident T bolt types. Ideal was one of the ones that corroded quickly.
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Old 18-12-2014, 11:00   #26
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
But really, for below waterline fittings, are you bothered about cost?
Of course I am! Doesn't mean I won't spend what's necessary, but why not try to minimize it?

But my question was mostly curiosity: from the same source, the embossed ones are always more expensive, but would seem to be easier (or no harder) to make than the slotted ones.

Thanks,
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Old 18-12-2014, 11:03   #27
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Yeah, these aircraft style clamps are the best... expensive though..... It would be nice if insurance companies and ABYC recognized how good they are and allowed a single clamp if that style is used....
Based on my shopping in 2012, don't buy them from West. The size I needed for my exhaust were $17.00 each and were utter crap. I got excellent ones from Hampton Rubber in Norfolk, VA, for $5.00 each. In other words, try a plumbing supply instead of a marine store.

I'm referring to T-bolt clamps. Not sure what aircraft clamps are.


Fair winds,
Jack
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Old 18-12-2014, 12:12   #28
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

AWAB, ABA Top Long-term Test



The hose clamps before (above left) and after 18 months in a salt bath (above right). The ABA and AWAB clamps (below) clearly have better corrosion resistance than the others that we tested (above right).

General-purpose, relatively inexpensive hose clamps are all over most boats, but there are some applications where using a higher quality, “corrosion resistant” clamp is critical—such as engine hoses and through-hulls.
Most quality clamps are stamped “stainless steel,” but there are many grades of steel, and making an alloy stainless and corrosion resistant is complicated and costly. You start with iron, which rusts easily, and through multiple processes, you add proportions of elements such as nickel, manganese, molybdenum, and chromium. Different percentages of these elements will improve the desired strength, hardness, and flexibility, as well as corrosion resistance, of the steel.
Without getting too technical, with some of these additional materials, the steel becomes less magnetic. In general, the less magnetic a metal is, the less likely it will corrode, although some exceptions exist. Using a magnet to test for this usually shows a better grade stainless steel—but not always.
A hose clamp comprises three components: the band, the bolt, and the bolt housing that holds them all together. Each can be made of different steel, and some nuts and bolts may be brass. Since the bolt housing is usually thin, stamped metal, it may be the weakest link.
To find out which hose clamps can be considered “high quality,” we launched a long-term test of stainless-steel hose clamps from 11 manufacturers at the end of 2012. (See PS February 2013 online.) Here’s an update on our findings.



What We Tested

The test field included clamps from Shields, ABA, Murray, AWAB, Breeze, American Valve, Ideal/Tridon, Trident, Koehler, and Norton. We tested sizes 28 (for hose sizes 15/16 to 2¼ inches) and 32 (for hoses 1½ to 2¼ inches), so prices aren’t directly comparable, and some are sold only in boxes of 10.
Two of the test clamps, the Shields 720-2000 and the Trident 720-2140, are the smooth-banded T-bolt design. T-bolt clamps are typically more expensive than regular hose clamps, and because they are only available in larger diameters, they are best suited for use at the marine head outlet or in exhaust systems.
Seven of the test clamps are tightened via a worm-screw mechanism with a regular bolt, bolt housing, and a perforated band. The other two worm-drive clamps, the ABA and AWAB, feature bands with embossed indentations rather than perforated holes.
How We Tested

Our test included an initial bench test, followed by long-term exposure testing. We started the bench testing with a simple magnet test of the whole hose clamp, then its individual components like the bolt and bolt housing. (Testers noted the results in the accompanying Test Results table.) Some parts showed no magnetism, and others—the screws, in particular—showed varying degrees.
Testers also measured the thickness of the metal bands with a digital micrometer. All clamps were closely examined and compared for quality of construction and workmanship.
The testing also compared compression, torque failure, and corrosion resistance. For the compression testing, we tightened each clamp to 50 inch-pounds and used a specialized digital meter to measure the amount of compression the clamp generated at that torque. Generally, a torque of 45 to 60 inch-pounds is sufficient for critical hose compression (through hulls, exhaust hose), and 15 to 20 inch-pounds is normal for non-critical hoses (potable water supply lines). Clamps that generated higher compression at our maximum torque earned higher ratings for compression.
To measure the failure point, we tightened the clamps on a PVC pipe until the hose clamp broke or began to slip. Based on our experience, corrosion is the chief cause of failure, so we were most interested in the clamps’ resistance to corrosion.
All test clamps were attached to a 2-inch PVC pipe and immersed in a saltwater bath for 12 weeks, rated, and then returned to the saltwater bath. This report focuses on our observations of the clamps after they spent 18 months in the saltwater bath.
For the second round of testing, we torqued each clamp to 60 pounds. All but two of our test clamps survived this final test.
What we found

The two heavy-duty T-bolt design clamps, made by Shields and Trident showed enough tarnish to warrant close monitoring, but they still worked perfectly. The bolts and nuts were clean and worked perfectly.
One of the worm-screw clamps that also showed just a little tarnish but worked fine was Murray. Four other clamps (Breeze, Ideal/Triton, Norton, and All Stainless) all showed significant corrosion on one or all of the component parts. None of these clamps failed during our torque test, but if you saw these on your boat, you would definitely consider replacing them. Two (American Valve and Koehler) showed considerable corrosion after only a few weeks in the salt bath and significant corrosion on the bolt and housing after 18 months. Both failed the torque test because the bolts were seized.
Our two winners were the clamps from ABA and AWAB. These nearly identical-looking clamps use 316-grade stainless steel, were completely non-magnetic, use stamped serrations instead of cut-through perforations, and now have the same parent company. Practical Sailor gave them our Best Choice rating back in February 2013, and an Excellent in our 18-month followup.
Conclusions

The two T-bolts, Shields and Trident, cost over $10 each, and the ABA and AWAB were more expensive than any of the other worm-gear clamps at about $5 each. However, the ABA and AWAB are clearly made of higher-quality materials, are constructed well, performed smoothly with good compression, and excelled in our long-term corrosion test by showing no signs of tarnish. Practical Sailor recommends either of these hose clamps for all on-board general purpose and critical use applications. For extra measure of security, it is recommended that you put two hose clamps on each hose-fitting union that is below the waterline when the boat is heeled.
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Old 19-12-2014, 09:15   #29
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

Thank you everyone; this is what makes this forum great.

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Old 19-12-2014, 09:29   #30
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Re: When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps?

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Thank you everyone; this is what makes this forum great.

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Aww man... This whole time I thought it was me...
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