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Old 29-04-2013, 06:40   #1
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What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

I am preparing for a haulout on my Lagoon 410 soon, and with all the recent talk on skin fitting and ball valve corrosion on other threads here, I'm wondering if I need to do all mine.

My attached photo shows 2 valves on a T piece attached to one skin fitting. First, I'm troubled that there should be more support for each of the valves, as a small bump would put a lot of leverage force on that central skin fitting. Then, what are the materials? Are those ball valves stainless?

And everything apart from the ball valves looks like bronze (not the brass I hear was used by Lagoon originally). The skin fitting itself (hard to see in the photo) shows quite a bit of surface corrosion.

I can see the valve handles are original Lagoon. Can anyone confirm if anything else is original Lagoon?
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Old 29-04-2013, 06:57   #2
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

Looks like an Apollo (Conbraco) "Series 89" Cast Carbon Steel Ball Valve.
http://www.apollovalves.com/_product.../TS_89-100.pdf
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Old 29-04-2013, 06:58   #3
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

I hope that isn't below the waterline! That skin fitting should have a proper seacock on it if below the waterline. As you point out, not well supported, and it looks like it is destined for failure like it is.
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Old 29-04-2013, 07:12   #4
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
I hope that isn't below the waterline! That skin fitting should have a proper seacock on it if below the waterline. As you point out, not well supported, and it looks like it is destined for failure like it is.

I'm not thrilled about this install either.....
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Old 29-04-2013, 19:35   #5
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

Gord, you do manage to dig up some useful links. But would carbon steel have that bright colour? Whether they are cast carbon steel or stainless, am I right that neither material should be installed in a saltwater environment?

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
I hope that isn't below the waterline!
Yep, under the waterline, and I have two more pairs just like that one. It must be original Lagoon design. I am thinking about making a supporting cradle from plywood.
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Old 29-04-2013, 19:53   #6
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

Yikes!.. I say that maybe caused I'm used to Spartan bronze seacocks below the waterline. Looks dangerous to me and not at all correct. Looks like it would be better suited to a basement drain system in an house, sorry to say. Replace all below the waterline plumbing with these and rest at night. Servicing Tapered Cone Seacocks Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com

Available here http://www.robinhoodmarinecenter.com...s-ul-approved/
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Old 29-04-2013, 22:08   #7
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Why does the sink drain below the waterline in the first place?
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Old 29-04-2013, 22:32   #8
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

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Why does the sink drain below the waterline in the first place?
Your the first to mention a "sink". Maybe it's "skin" your referring to. But to answer your question; Most sinks on sailboats are just slightly above the waterline. The only alternative would be to drain in the bilge.

As for the OP, I'd just replace it all with seacocks and all bronze. Mixing metals, whatever they may be, is not good in a saltwater environment.
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Old 29-04-2013, 22:41   #9
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Could be wrong but I thought the handle said "sink drain" on it. And I queried below the water line, not slightly above. Mine are all well above the waterline without seacocks, but then again I'm on a cat. If the waterline nears those through hulls I've got big problems.
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Old 29-04-2013, 23:01   #10
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Could be wrong but I thought the handle said "sink drain" on it. And I queried below the water line, not slightly above. Mine are all well above the waterline without seacocks, but then again I'm on a cat. If the waterline nears those through hulls I've got big problems.
You are right, once the picture is enlarged. But even a 90 is a bad idea in a sink drain.
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:53   #11
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

Wanderlust - I won't comment on the installation, I think that's been addressed.

My guess, regarding the valve material is that it's not made in the US. The handle is slightly curved, and every SS handle in the US is straight. I can only see the 58 marked on the casting which may designate 58% copper, "yellow brass", with 39% zinc. The silver coating makes me think it might be Chinese. However, Eastern European is also a possibility.

Again Just a guess.

No matter what I'd start with a real US made bronze flanged seacock.

Can you tell us what the other letters/numbers are? That might help. Metal alloy designations are meaningful. For example:

Leaded red brass AKA composition bronze AKA 85-5-5-5 (copper/tin/lead/zinc) has a copper alloy designation of #836. If it's extruded it has an ASTM designation of B505, the same material cast has an ASTM designation of B62.

It's possible those other alpha/numerics can help identify the exact material.
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Old 02-05-2013, 22:54   #12
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

Thanks for your comments Watercolor.

Gord May had surmised that the numbers were 89 rather than 58, and provided a link to an Apollo valve. Since your comment, I have had a closer look at the higher resolution photo I have, and still can't be sure if it is 58 or 89. On another identical valve, there is a further marking that appears to be PN 10.

As for the handles, I feel confident they are original Lagoon. When I replace the valves, I intend to swap the handles again as they have good labels. Also, I am in Australia, and the boat has never been to the US, so non US fittings are no surprise.

I will not be back aboard until next week, so will have a closer look then.
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Old 02-05-2013, 23:20   #13
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

What ever those valves are, and they look crappy to me, they should be replaced by real flanged seacocks or Groco flanged adapters with quality ball valves.
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Old 02-05-2013, 23:36   #14
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Re: What material are these plumbing fittings on my Lagoon?

If they are metric valves, look for a DIN #####
The PN 10 is not an alloy marking.

A USA valve for SS would have a CF #, CE or CG
Bronze would have a 900 # or CD#
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:26   #15
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Quote:
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If they are metric valves, look for a DIN #####
The PN 10 is not an alloy marking.

A USA valve for SS would have a CF #, CE or CG
Bronze would have a 900 # or CD#
pN is the pressure rating.

Those valves look like common plated brass valves , two a penny in plumbers shops here , bronze is very very rarely plated. At best they could be DNZ types ( wishful thinking )

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