Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-02-2011, 07:54   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: STX and Portland, until refit finished
Boat: 1999 Steel (Tom Collin's design)
Posts: 371
What, Exactly, Are 'Type II' MSDs ?

What exactly are "Type II" Marine Sanatation Devices?

The ones I'm finding on the itnernet appear to basicly be primary treatment, done one a very small scale. Basicly like a spetic tank for a rual house, again, on a small scale. Because of the small scale, they seem to have to be designed more carefuly to fuction.

Is that what they actualy are? If so, then they should be sigificantly more effective than a lectrasan style unit.

They appear to be about the size of a decent holding tank. Any thoughts to fitting on on a smaller than 65 foot boat?
__________________

__________________
ViribusUnitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 08:07   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
As I understand it the type II and type I are similar. The type II have stricter output requirements, and higher capacity requirements.

Our Bristol 35 came with a LectraSan and for the most part I am happy with it. I wouldn't want it to be any bigger than it is, smaller would be nicer.

I couldn't see fitting in a type II because of the size. Raritan has a type II, the ManaGerm and it looks quite big, even compared to the size of the LectraSan.

I do find it interesting it has a maximum roll of 15 degrees.
__________________

__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 08:35   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Type 2s use a small amount of electricity, by their standards. The first two companies I looked at didn't even give specs for the aeration pump, they only gave the spec for their low power 1/3 HP 120 volt pump out pump. The Raritan type 2 listed above gives the spec of 1 amp, 120 volt for the aerator pump. The aerator pump runs 24/7 unless you clean out the system for long term storage.

http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/managerm/L350.pdf

John
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 08:47   #4
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Type II is for enclosed costal waters. Type I is what you need in a seaway, the deep ocean, high swell, storms etc. They come with handle bars to keep you attached.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 08:49   #5
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,226
Images: 2
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZ View Post
As I understand it the type II and type I are similar. The type II have stricter output requirements, and higher capacity requirements.
Is that 'PC' for Type 1 is for small Butts and Type 2 for Bigger Butts.....??
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 09:01   #6
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Quoted, below, is 33 CFR Part 159, the definitions section of the actual CG regulations:

Type I marine sanitation device means a device that, under the test conditions described in 159.123 and 159.125, produces an effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 1,000 per 100 milliliters and no visible floating solids.

Type II marine sanitation device means a device that, under the test conditions described in 159.126 and 159.126a, produces an effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 200 per 100 milliliters and suspended solids not greater than 150 milligrams per liter.

Type III marine sanitation device means a device that is designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 09:14   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

Is that 'PC' for Type 1 is for small Butts and Type 2 for Bigger Butts.....??

Less butts vs. more butts....

Type II are rated per number of passengers/day.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2011, 11:47   #8
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,533
Type IIs are...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViribusUnitis View Post
What exactly are "Type II" Marine Sanatation Devices??
Vessels <66' may use a Type I, Type II or Type III. Vessels 66'+ are limited to a Type II MSDs or a Type III. Type IIs typically cost upwards of $2500, so you won't many many boats < 66' that have one.

The difference is the level of treatment required by federal law...

A Type I must macerate to "no visible solids" (iow, puree) and reduce bacteria count to a maximum of 1000/100 ml.

A Type II must reduce bacteria count to a maximum of 200/100 ml and reduce suspended particulates (solids and TP) to no more than 100 ppm...iow, almost clear. That's the same standard required by federal law for swimming waters.

A Type III is any devices that receives and retains sewage (sewage from vessels is limited to "human body waste and the waste from toilets"...it does not include gray water or trash) and does not discharge it...iow, a holding tank or a portapotty or a composter.

In fact, the Lectra/San, ElectroScan, PuraSan--all Type I MSDs--actually reduce bacteria count to < 10/100 ml...far cleaner than required for a Type I or even a Type II. However, they can't be certified as Type II because they don't meet the Type II requirement for suspended particulate matter. Just maceration won't do it...that requires filtering too and aerators and regular doses of bacteria "digesters" to break down solids and TP. So they cost a lot more, take up a lot more space, require a LOT more power and need considerably more maintenance than a Type I.
__________________
2017 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-B...dp/1892399784/
peghall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2011, 11:49   #9
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,533
Actually not quite true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Type II is for enclosed costal waters. Type I is what you need in a seaway, the deep ocean, high swell, storms etc. They come with handle bars to keep you attached.
Type Is are for vessels < 66'...Type IIs are for vessels 66' + Some cruise ships and ocean liners have Type II systems. A lot bigger and more complex than anything you'll find on the net, though.
__________________
2017 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-B...dp/1892399784/
peghall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2011, 12:07   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: STX and Portland, until refit finished
Boat: 1999 Steel (Tom Collin's design)
Posts: 371
In looking around google, I find the following.

Ahead Tank Marine Sanitation Device MSD

The smallest version of this thing looks to be about the size of a typical holding tank, with over all dimentions that work out to about 65 gallons of volume. It appears to utalize about the amount of power that a typical solar cell could deliver.

Is there any advantage to putting a Type II unit into smaller (45-55') boat if it would fit? It seems like it could replace the typical holding tank, and with the addition of one additional solar pannel be roughly good to go.

Or is there insufficent diffrence bettween the proformance of a Type I and Type II unit to care? Or does it require a minimum number of people on the boat to fuction properly? Or something else that I havn't thought about?
__________________
ViribusUnitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2011, 12:36   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViribusUnitis View Post
In looking around google, I find the following.

Ahead Tank Marine Sanitation Device MSD

The smallest version of this thing looks to be about the size of a typical holding tank, with over all dimentions that work out to about 65 gallons of volume. It appears to utalize about the amount of power that a typical solar cell could deliver.

Is there any advantage to putting a Type II unit into smaller (45-55') boat if it would fit? It seems like it could replace the typical holding tank, and with the addition of one additional solar pannel be roughly good to go.

Or is there insufficent diffrence bettween the proformance of a Type I and Type II unit to care? Or does it require a minimum number of people on the boat to fuction properly? Or something else that I havn't thought about?
Where are you getting the specs?
The only specs I found were for the air pump sold separately. It uses 40 watts. If you use 4 hours per day that the solar panel works, then that's 1/6th of the day, so you need 6 times 40 watts or 240 watts of solar panels to keep up with the air pump. That doesn't include cloudy days, or that the pump is AC so you'll have to add some for inverter losses.

And while 30 dB for the pump is very quiet, it is aerating a tank, making bubble noises. Is this going to be installed near a sleeping area? Do you have room to sound insulate if needed?

John
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2011, 13:09   #12
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,533
There's no advantage to a Type II on a smaller boat

[QUOTE=ViribusUnitis;622534]Is there any advantage to putting a Type II unit into smaller (45-55') boat if it would fit? It seems like it could replace the typical holding tank, and with the addition of one additional solar pannel be roughly good to go.

It would like using a Cruise missile to go duck hunting...both shotguns and missiles have their purposes, but they're not interchangeable.

Or is there insufficent diffrence bettween the proformance of a Type I and Type II unit to care? Or does it require a minimum number of people on the boat to fuction properly? Or something else that I havn't thought about?

There's a lot you haven't thought about. For one thing, Type IIs develop major problems if the boat sits...the filtration system and the aeration systems have to run 24/7/365. And you're mistaken about the power demand. Besides, why would you want to spend $5k to accomplish what can be done even better for < $1k?
__________________
2017 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-B...dp/1892399784/
peghall is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Type of Winch ? Sabbatical II Anchoring & Mooring 29 06-10-2010 17:51
What type of multihull is this? David M Multihull Sailboats 19 21-06-2008 02:06
what type of buffer? turkish6 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 09-02-2008 23:26
what type of shampoo turkish6 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 10-09-2007 03:04
Type of Swageless ksmith Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 21-08-2007 20:17



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.