Watermakers

[chuckr]

i can only tell you what works for us and the mistake we made -- we put on a katadyn that produces 3.5 gal/hr -- we run it off our solar panels -- when we are out we run it 1-2 hrs a day - or until tank is almost full -
our mistake was we should have gotten the 6 gal/hr - we could have still run it off our solar panels

as for dirty water -- we have run it in some awlful places and it makes great water - just go thur filters a lot more often -

as for where we have used it - from fla to mexico to colombia across to jamaicia down to trinidad up to antigua then across the atlantic and a bit around the med and now in tunisia - so it has gotten a lot of use

[thelifenomadik]

We have a Catalina MK II watermaker and it works fine. It came in the mail and we installed it ourselves. You can buy them cheaper at boatshows.

1 amp 1 gallon. We try not to use it in dirty waters, like anchorages, as the filter gets dirty a lot faster. Instead of changing the filter every month, you can simply take it out and rinse it. Thus you can use the same filter for a long time, for years.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by cburger

1 Is it possible to have a watermaker that can be run from polluted riverwater, the boat is on the Hudson and would like to have a system set up that can reliably make clean potable water from any type of area, not just pristine in the middle of the ocean locations, (If that even exists anymore). I know that municipalities make drinking water as well as us microfiltration for the final process on wastewater and protect the membranes with some form of pre-filtration, (Activated carbon maybe). Is there any type of prefitration systems suitable for small sailboat suitable watermakers that will allow water production in potentially oil contaminated waters.

[[In full disclosure I'm the owner of www.cruiserowater.com so I make and sell water makers. Just to be open in the event you didn't know.]]

There is this myth out there about water makers that you can only run them in crystal clear blue water. Never in anchorages, never in a cloudy or merky water and certainly never in a River or brackish water estuary.

If it was true that you can only make water out in crystal clear blue water then most cruisers would never make any water because we spend 90-95% of our time out cruising AT ANCHOR. With a good prefiltering system of a 20 micron followed by a 5 micron prefilter you can make water in dirty looking water...the killer is Oil and Diesel fuel...but particulate solids will be removed by the prefilters. Sure you will need to wash out and change out your prefilters more frequenty than out in crystal clear waters, but to me that is better than water rationing, jerry canning, or pulling anchor just to make water. At $7ea for a prefilter that can be cleaned 4-5 times before replacing, I don't stress over making water in green or even brown looking bays, anchorages or even estuaries.

You can't use an Activated Carbon filter as a Sea water prefilter...well I guess you could be it would be dead (or fully loaded) in a few minutes but there really isn't chlorine or oxidants in sea water anyway to hurt your system. Where AC filters are unsed in water makers is to remove any oxidants (specifically Chlorine) from the tank water used for fresh water flushing the water maker.

When you are in a river or brackish water (less "salty" than pure sea water), just adjust your water makers operating pressure down from about 800psi and let your product water production rate be your limiting factor and make all the water you want. You don't want to significantly exceed your rated flow rate or you can damage the RO Membrane.

My recommendation is to talk driectly to the different water maker compaies out there because how they answer your questions will tell you as much about them as their answers. I do that test with any gear manufacturer these days because you would be surprised at how many companies give poor service even BEFORE the sale, so once they already have your money, will they actually improve their service?

I Oily water is a real concern, that will KILL your membrane's organic seperation layer...so you will need to install an Oil/water seperator prior to your frefiltration system. These are pretty standard devises on commercial larger systems...but honestly, most cruising boat don't use these due to the additional ppressure drop they add to the system.

In terms of system footprint. Here are a few photos of water maker installation on boats. Now these ARE 120v AC systems so it would require either a honda 2000 generator or diesel genset, but the photo will give you a footprint idea:

20 GPH Water Maker in V-Berth of 35ft boat.



30 Gallon per hour water maker in 40ft Cat


20 Gallon per hour water maker showing boost pump, prefilters, and then the Activated Carbon filter that is used for fresh water flushing.

[cburger]

Originally Posted by chuckr

i can only tell you what works for us and the mistake we made -- we put on a katadyn that produces 3.5 gal/hr -- we run it off our solar panels -- when we are out we run it 1-2 hrs a day - or until tank is almost full -
our mistake was we should have gotten the 6 gal/hr - we could have still run it off our solar panels

as for dirty water -- we have run it in some awlful places and it makes great water - just go thur filters a lot more often -

as for where we have used it - from fla to mexico to colombia across to jamaicia down to trinidad up to antigua then across the atlantic and a bit around the med and now in tunisia - so it has gotten a lot of use

I have pretty much settled on the Pur/ Katadyn line of watermakers, they have a tried and true reputation, simple compared to the more complicated units, low electrical draw and good customer service.

I had actually spoken with a Kataydn company rep a while back and they could make no good suggestion re: pre-oil removal. My intake line would be several feet below the water line and am thinking that may go far in limiting oil uptake into the system. Will look into options regarding oil/water separators.

[witzgall]

But be careful, not all charcoal filters remove the same amount of chlorine. If you use one that lets too much past, you will "Fry" your membrane.

Chris

Originally Posted by a64pilot

All it takes to handle chlorine is an activated charcoal filter, but remember you'l be filtering far more water than your making, so you'd have to have a big pre-filter and change it often

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by witzgall

But be careful, not all charcoal filters remove the same amount of chlorine. If you use one that lets too much past, you will "Fry" your membrane. Chris

Understand, while I don't have a watermaker yet, my Father was on Home Hemodyalisis before he passed, of course Hemodyalsis requires an RO that is pretty similar to a boats watermaker. It was on city water that was chlorinated, in order to remove all the chlorine he had a couple of activated charcoal filters that were the size of welding gas tanks, you know about four feet tall and ten inches in diameter, so apparently even though all it takes to remove chlorine is activated charcoal, it takes a LOT of activated charcoal.
Also to make say 40 gls of RO water, you actually having to filter way more than 40 Gl and hour as a lot of water bypasses the membranes, I believe this water essentially removes contaminates and flushes the membranes, but I don't know what the ratio of made water to filtered water is.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Also to make say 40 gls of RO water, you actually having to filter way more than 40 Gl and hour as a lot of water bypasses the membranes, I believe this water essentially removes contaminates and flushes the membranes, but I don't know what the ratio of made water to filtered water is.

For example, our 20 gallon per hour water maker pulls in 96 gallons per hour of raw sea water.

[Tellie]

[QUOTE=Bayside Bert28;1407660]That's funny. We were wondering where that charcoal filter goes!!! It goes in the first clear? We are just getting around to commissioning the new system today.

So there should be a quick disconnect for the brine discharge? Why? I'm sure the quick disconnect is in the pile of fittings that are left over!

It's been an easy install (largely had it done) but there were no snags at all. Fortunately, there were already functioning thru hulls for pickup and discharge. Also, there was a plumb in the top of the fresh water storage tank for the fresh water return. These 3 things saved time and were there from the original water maker on the vessel.

Will look at the fan.

You like anyone on the boards, can always call me with any advice you might need. Just shoot me a PM and I'll give you me phone number.

To answer you're questions, yes the Charcoal filter goes in the empty clear filter housing shown in your pics. Put that in before you start your commissioning. The quick disconnect is in the bag of parts you received with your unit. That is there so you can quickly remove the brine over board and repalce it with the pickling hose. (The pickling hoses are in the plastic bag with the round white pot of pickling solution. One hose id 5/8" braided and the other is a 3/4" non collapsible hose) You''l find removing the 5/8" hose from a nylon barbed fitting can be very hard. So when you get a chance locate the quick disconnect and install it. The one question I have is always the wire sizing. What size is the wire and how long is it's run from the power source to the units terminals?

[Bayside Bert28]

We used #6 AWG for the 35'-40' run from the 24V power source. We used separate strands and wrapped it in conduit. Running the cable was my only job but it relieved a significant headache for the installer! I have a NewMar 32V-24V that I use primarily for the Davit that I used for power. Since the 32V system is my primary DC Power source, it made sense for me to use this system. In the future, I'm considering running an inverter for AC and trying to run nighttime without the genny.

After commissioning, topped my 250 gallon tank no problem overnight. The water was nicely porting out the vent tube in the morning. I ran with only one of the two pumps running overnight. I'll only need to run the system a few hours a day for normal use. It is loud with both pumps running … crazy thing needs an engine synchronizer! But of course, it's fine to run on a single pump.

It's an amazing system.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Bayside Bert28

We used #6 AWG for the 35'-40' run from the 24V power source. We used separate strands and wrapped it in conduit. Running the cable was my only job but it relieved a significant headache for the installer! I have a NewMar 32V-24V that I use primarily for the Davit that I used for power. Since the 32V system is my primary DC Power source, it made sense for me to use this system. In the future, I'm considering running an inverter for AC and trying to run nighttime without the genny.

After commissioning, topped my 250 gallon tank no problem overnight. The water was nicely porting out the vent tube in the morning. I ran with only one of the two pumps running overnight. I'll only need to run the system a few hours a day for normal use. It is loud with both pumps running … crazy thing needs an engine synchronizer! But of course, it's fine to run on a single pump.

It's an amazing system.

#6 is fine for 24V. There is the vibration but yours is still one of the most quiet watermakers made. You should hear the ones with the high pressure plunger pumps, you'll be glad you won't have to deal with that noise. I can't tell by your pics but did you mount it against the hull? If it gets to you I have started experimenting with some vibration dampers that so far have worked out great for your type system. Where are you making water all night long down here? I hate to disagree with Rich but after years of working and repairing all kinds of watermakers there are most certainly places you should not run a watermaker. Each year I get to repair brand new units because of some of the areas an owner was told it was OK to operate their unit. You have a large investment you want to last, use the side of caution. Good Luck on your trip over the stream and let me know if I can ever help.

[Bayside Bert28]

I'm on my way and first stop, decided to run the watermaker. But first, I thought I would clean the intake screen. I didn't close the through hull since the screen location is above the water line … not much water came out. I put it back on and seem to have lost prime. I pulled the intake hose off the primary feed pump and drew the sea water into my mouth so there doesn't seem to be a problem with losing prime. It seems like all the fittings are tight. I held my hand over the intake end of the pump and it doesn't feel like there is any vacuum.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Bayside Bert28

I'm on my way and first stop, decided to run the watermaker. But first, I thought I would clean the intake screen. I didn't close the through hull since the screen location is above the water line … not much water came out. I put it back on and seem to have lost prime. I pulled the intake hose off the primary feed pump and drew the sea water into my mouth so there doesn't seem to be a problem with losing prime. It seems like all the fittings are tight. I held my hand over the intake end of the pump and it doesn't feel like there is any vacuum.

Try next time to open the pressure relief valve then start both pumps. It should prime pretty quickly, then close it off. The raw water strainer really should be below the waterline though. There is another simple and cheap trick I show people with a CHE330 using two nylon "Ts" and a shut off valve that will both quickly prime your system and also back flush the raw water strainer and keep fresh water in the line from the thru hull to the first feed pump module. This makes the strainer last a lot longer and reduces the amount of times you need to open it to clean it. PM me and I can send you a simple diagram on how to do it if you'd like.

[Bayside Bert28]

Ok - I took a breather today and looked at / tightened all of the fittings and then opened the pressure relief valve while allowing the pumps to run. It did prime it self and come right on line. She is working. It's going to be nice. Now, once the props get straightened, I'm on my way south again … currently at Sneads Ferry NC till Friday.

[cburger]

Originally Posted by Bayside Bert28

Ok - I took a breather today and looked at / tightened all of the fittings and then opened the pressure relief valve while allowing the pumps to run. It did prime it self and come right on line. She is working. It's going to be nice. Now, once the props get straightened, I'm on my way south again … currently at Sneads Ferry NC till Friday.

Bon Voyage