Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-11-2013, 15:15   #16
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Watermakers

Choosing a watermaker based on what works for another rarely works out well. Not only is every cruiser different, every boat is different along with it's capabilities. If you have a generator on board and you don't mind running a few hours every day or every other day or so then an AC watermaker starts to make sense. But if you lose your generator you lose the ability to make water, with the lose of both the generator and the watermaker it may put a quicker halt to what you are doing and directing focus on finding the nearest repairs. A DC powered unit can be operated while a generator is running and when it is not. This way the watermaker is not tied to the reliability of a generator but can certainly take advantage of the right generator which can serve double duty in charging the batteries as well. Watermakers can be sized too large and too small if you base that decsion on another crusiers requirements. For example, and I'm not picking on you Rebel at all, a Katadyn 40E, although a good watermaker is about as anemic a watermaker you can put on a boat. I know price point is an issue for many but when discussing 12volt systems the real numbers you want to look at are the amount of amps it takes to make one gallon of water. The 40E will use an advertised 2.6amps to make a gallon of water and take 40 minutes to do so. Not realistic for most cruisers. For about $700 more you could buy a watermaker that will make that same gallon of water with 1.1 amp and make 4.5 gallons in that same 40 minutes of run time. Do the math on amp use for the amount of water you would like and the differences can be large. There is also lot less wear and tear on the machine in the long run. Adding a 40gph watermaker on a boat with a 80 gallon capacity doesn't make sense either. Most crusiers will be making water long before their watertanks are empty which is a good idea, even more important if they are long distance cruisers who cannot afford for safety reasons to wait until their supply is low before making water. Then there are all those cruisers in between whose needs wants and capabilities are far more numerous to get into here.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 19:34   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: Watermakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
The Cruise RO SeaMaker 20 and 30 gallon per hour water makers can operate from a Honda EU2000i generator
Yeah I looked at those; they're popular here in Mexico. I hate lugging gas around and didn't want something that big in the boat. I'm really trying to nail the solar / wind energy thing.
__________________

__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 19:56   #18
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Watermakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Yeah I looked at those; they're popular here in Mexico. I hate lugging gas around and didn't want something that big in the boat. I'm really trying to nail the solar / wind energy thing.
Then the Spectra VENTURA 200T is the way to go for solar and low power users.

Spectra Watermakers - All Marine Products
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Spectra Ventura 200T.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	48.3 KB
ID:	70077  
__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 20:58   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Watermakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
If you have a generator on board and you don't mind running a few hours every day or every other day or so then an AC watermaker starts to make sense. But if you lose your generator you lose the ability to make water, with the lose of both the generator and the watermaker it may put a quicker halt to what you are doing and directing focus on finding the nearest repairs.
Not necessarily. Ours runs off the inverter which, while a high DC current draw, can be neutrally supplied by our 150A of alternators when motoring.

Alternately, we know many cruisers with Honda generators and no watermaker who would be very happy to lend us their Honda for an hour's worth of our watermaker output.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2013, 06:23   #20
Registered User
 
rcmpegasus's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Diego & Port Townsend
Boat: Formosa 51 Ketch
Posts: 143
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to rcmpegasus
I am running a Cruise RO 40 gal per hour unit, looks to be using around 18 amps AC when running. I power it off my Victron inverters. Most of the time I operate it while I am motoring so the alternator keeps the batteries up a bit. If at anchor I will run a small Honda generator while making water or if good sun just the panels. Any deficits in battery level are made up over time by the solar panels. I like the setup as I can use three different power sources and one or both of the inverter chargers. The big thing to include in your calculations is the Peukert equation. Having a battery that is large in relation to your DC draw is important.

I designed the boat system and wired it for a 5 kW generator, but never installed it as I find I can get by on primarily solar, occasional alternator use and in need the honda generator. I haven't installed air conditioning yet, which will likely change this.

The Cruise RO is fantastic, simple reliable and really puts out water. Support is excellent from the company. The crew loves the freshwater toilets and showers everyday, which means our consumption has increased a good bit. Currently with five people we use about 100-130 gallons every three days.
__________________
Bob Mathews
S/V Pegasus
rcmpegasus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 15:32   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 38
Re: Watermakers

Completed installation of my Spectra Cape Horn Extreme 330 GPD. I'm think I will love this thing.



__________________
Bayside Bert28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 16:38   #22
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: Watermakers

I hope this isn't considered highjacking the thread but as I am getting ready to go carry jugs of water down to my boat in the cold darkness thought turn to water makers. The boat is being fitted out with an eye towards simplicity and reliability of gear and would like to ask a couple questions.

1 Is it possible to have a watermaker that can be run from polluted riverwater, the boat is on the Hudson and would like to have a system set up that can reliably make clean potable water from any type of area, not just pristine in the middle of the ocean locations, (If that even exists anymore). I know that municipalities make drinking water as well as us microfiltration for the final process on wastewater and protect the membranes with some form of pre-filtration, (Activated carbon maybe). Is there any type of prefitration systems suitable for small sailboat suitable watermakers that will allow water production in potentially oil contaminated waters.

2 I do not want a generator of have to burn any type of fuel to make my water. For a 32 sailboat does one know of a system with a reasonably high output with a low amp draw that is simple, reliable, small footprint from a company with a great customer service ethic?
__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 17:24   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Regarding the prefilters, I know there are some fancy oil-water separators and probably some that can handle other chemicals like chlorine. I've seen some yachts making water in filthy harbors, but I don't think that gear is going to fit your low cost and low maintenance qualifiers.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 18:21   #24
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
All it takes to handle chlorine is an activated charcoal filter, but remember you'l be filtering far more water than your making, so you'd have to have a big pre-filter and change it often
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 18:33   #25
Registered User
 
sy_gilana's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On board
Boat: Van de Stadt 50'
Posts: 1,101
Send a message via Skype™ to sy_gilana
Re: Watermakers

6Watt per Litre...!

WATER-PRO MODULAR B-60 12/24V | Eco-Sistems Watermakers
__________________
Tight sheets to ya.
http://gilana.org
sy_gilana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 19:17   #26
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Watermakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayside Bert28 View Post
Completed installation of my Spectra Cape Horn Extreme 330 GPD. I'm think I will love this thing.





There's a curmudgeon in every group.
So where's that charcoal filter? What happened to the brine discharge quick disconnect? Also be careful with he cooling fan on the closest feed pump. You can push it down too far and it can be broken by the rise on the top of the feed pump. Minor stuff to be sure. Enjoy your CHE330 and if you have any questions or need advice just let me know.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 19:33   #27
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Watermakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by sy_gilana View Post

Electrical Specifications
550w motor when 12v DC. Power consumption: 32 A, 3
84w*
550w motor when 24v DC Power consumption: 16 A, 3
84w*
Average consumption per liter of produced water: 6,4w *
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 06:57   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 38
Re: Watermakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
There's a curmudgeon in every group.
So where's that charcoal filter? What happened to the brine discharge quick disconnect? Also be careful with he cooling fan on the closest feed pump. You can push it down too far and it can be broken by the rise on the top of the feed pump. Minor stuff to be sure. Enjoy your CHE330 and if you have any questions or need advice just let me know.
That's funny. We were wondering where that charcoal filter goes!!! It goes in the first clear? We are just getting around to commissioning the new system today.

So there should be a quick disconnect for the brine discharge? Why? I'm sure the quick disconnect is in the pile of fittings that are left over!

It's been an easy install (largely had it done) but there were no snags at all. Fortunately, there were already functioning thru hulls for pickup and discharge. Also, there was a plumb in the top of the fresh water storage tank for the fresh water return. These 3 things saved time and were there from the original water maker on the vessel.

Will look at the fan.

Your input is welcome!
__________________
Bayside Bert28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 07:32   #29
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Penobscot Bay, Maine
Boat: Tayana 47
Posts: 995
Talking Re: Watermakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger View Post
I hope this isn't considered highjacking the thread but as I am getting ready to go carry jugs of water down to my boat in the cold darkness thought turn to water makers. The boat is being fitted out with an eye towards simplicity and reliability of gear and would like to ask a couple questions.

1 Is it possible to have a watermaker that can be run from polluted riverwater, the boat is on the Hudson and would like to have a system set up that can reliably make clean potable water from any type of area, not just pristine in the middle of the ocean locations, (If that even exists anymore). I know that municipalities make drinking water as well as us microfiltration for the final process on wastewater and protect the membranes with some form of pre-filtration, (Activated carbon maybe). Is there any type of prefitration systems suitable for small sailboat suitable watermakers that will allow water production in potentially oil contaminated waters.

2 I do not want a generator of have to burn any type of fuel to make my water. For a 32 sailboat does one know of a system with a reasonably high output with a low amp draw that is simple, reliable, small footprint from a company with a great customer service ethic?
You don't need clean, pristine ocean water because all these systems include prefilters and you can add additional ones, they will just need cleaning more frequently in less clean water. I don't know just how dirty the Hudson is so can't say whether it would be feasible to regularly operate a watermaker there.

Of course some watermaker are more efficient than others but all of them require a high pressure pump that demands lots of energy to generate that high pressure, and there's no getting around that. If you were in the Caribbean with a couple of big wind generators and a large solar array onboard, you might be able to power one of the smallest watermakers that would supply your basic needs. But in NY, the reality is that you don't have the same sort of access to free, renewable, energy that they have in the Caribbean because the wind doesn't blow as regularly or as strongly, and you get far less sun each day so there's no way you can generate the amounts of energy needed. Since you've ruled out fossil fuels to generate the energy you need to run a watermaker, unless you move your boat to someplace with a lot stronger and more regular wind, I fear that you are destined to keep lugging your water. Look at it this way, it's good exercise!
__________________
jtsailjt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 08:45   #30
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: Watermakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
You don't need clean, pristine ocean water because all these systems include prefilters and you can add additional ones, they will just need cleaning more frequently in less clean water. I don't know just how dirty the Hudson is so can't say whether it would be feasible to regularly operate a watermaker there.

Of course some watermaker are more efficient than others but all of them require a high pressure pump that demands lots of energy to generate that high pressure, and there's no getting around that. If you were in the Caribbean with a couple of big wind generators and a large solar array onboard, you might be able to power one of the smallest watermakers that would supply your basic needs. But in NY, the reality is that you don't have the same sort of access to free, renewable, energy that they have in the Caribbean because the wind doesn't blow as regularly or as strongly, and you get far less sun each day so there's no way you can generate the amounts of energy needed. Since you've ruled out fossil fuels to generate the energy you need to run a watermaker, unless you move your boat to someplace with a lot stronger and more regular wind, I fear that you are destined to keep lugging your water. Look at it this way, it's good exercise!
Thank you for the informative post, I have worked in the water/ wastewater field for some time, (Not an engineer) and had the chance to tour some so called "State of the art" municipal reverse osmosis facilities. In the process of speaking with the engineers it was indicated that oil in water can be the death of the membranes. Walking back to the boat this morning I can see oil from someone's boat in the marina on the surface.

I appreciate your input regarding the solar and wind arrays and while I would like to take advantage of this technology I don't want to spoil the look of my classic, traditional vessel by building a big monster solar and wind installation and as such still trying to figure out where all that gear will go if at all.

So at the end of the day I will have to speak with some of the companies that build the gear about the present realities of using polluted river water to make potable.

After riding out Hurricane Sandy's devastation the local police forces had almost a marshal law scenario in place, and were not allowing people to return to their houses/ boats if they went into town to get food, fuel, etc.
We lost electric for almost two weeks in the marina and I came to the realization that it would be nice to be able to make water as efficiently as possible and hunker down.



__________________

__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Higher Capacity Watermakers Ozbullwinkle Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 41 13-11-2012 10:40
SK Watermakers skwater Commercial Posts 2 31-01-2012 14:17
For Sale: PUR Watermakers PowerSurvivor 40E jhultgre Classifieds Archive 2 25-01-2012 14:37
Drinking Water from Watermakers escapeyachting Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 41 27-10-2011 11:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.